Cutting a shotgun barrel...help

[Guest carter]

so it has come to my attention that if you buy a pistol grip shotgun from the factory, you can cut the barrel down to around the 14"+ mark, and add a shockwave grip and be perfectly legal... as long as it's 26" overall length... SO! why would you not do this and by pass the NFA tax stamp lol I love the look... my question is, what is the best way to cut the barrel? or is there a known gunsmith in the Murfreesboro area that would do this... I know this is sort of a touchy piece... being it has to come originally assembled from the factory with a pistol grip, and also you can't add a stock to it, it as to remain a pistol grip...

 

[url=http://s188.photobucket.com/user/italyencracka/media/RG50011_zpsdaf3682c.jpg.html][/URL]

Edited December 13, 2014 by carter

[Westwindmike]

Randy Weaver cut off a shotgun barrel below 18" and you see what it got him.

[cknight8]

26" is the shortest legal limit for overall length, but smoothbore must have a barrel length of 18" to be legal. Rifled barrel length is 16". If you go shorter on either the barrel lengths OR the overall lengths, it's a big no no if you don't have the SBS/SBR stamp & paperwork.

[Murgatroy]

Unless they have recently amended the laws, it is legal to cut a shotgun barrel shorter than 18.5" as long as the overall length of the previously pistol grip only shogun is still over 26".

 

Thus the 14" barrel on a Mossberg 500 with a birdshead grip is over 26" and is still legal as it started out as a FIREARM and not a shotgun. If it had a stock, it started as a shotgun.

 

I am not 100% certain of the legalities, or the loopholes, but I do know it has been discussed here several times, as well as the fact that several vendors sell them and plainly state they are not NFA items.

 

 

Google is your friend.

 

 

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/79758-anyone-have-a-non-nfa-14-firearm/

 

http://augerprecisionfirearms.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=111

[Guest carter]

26" is the shortest legal limit for overall length, but smoothbore must have a barrel length of 18" to be legal. Rifled barrel length is 16". If you go shorter on either the barrel lengths OR the overall lengths, it's a big no no if you don't have the SBS/SBR stamp & paperwork.

is that a Tennessee law? because all i have read and the picture i posted are all totally legal... it stated the shotgun HAD to come from the factory with a pistol grip, which makes it an other (so i thought) so there are only a few shotguns that come from the factory like that like the Mossberg JIC, and Remington also makes one... and it also HAS to have a smooth bore, it can't have a rifled barrel... and the overall length has to be over 26" i think also...my buddy has an ATF letter stating everything (it's not personalized to him, just one he pulled off some msg board)

[Guest carter]

Unless they have recently amended the laws, it is legal to cut a shotgun barrel shorter than 18.5" as long as the overall length of the previously pistol grip only shogun is still over 26".

 

Thus the 14" barrel on a Mossberg 500 with a birdshead grip is over 26" and is still legal as it started out as a FIREARM and not a shotgun. If it had a stock, it started as a shotgun.

 

I am not 100% certain of the legalities, or the loopholes, but I do know it has been discussed here several times, as well as the fact that several vendors sell them and plainly state they are not NFA items.

 

 

Google is your friend.

 

 

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/79758-anyone-have-a-non-nfa-14-firearm/

 

http://augerprecisionfirearms.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=111

well yes i knew all of this...lol my original question is how to actually cut the barrel or a gunsmith around murfreeaboro that would do it...and WOW...deff not paying $649 for one lol i can get 2 Mossberg JIC's for that lol

Edited December 14, 2014 by carter

[Oh Shoot]

26" is the shortest legal limit for overall length, but smoothbore must have a barrel length of 18" to be legal. Rifled barrel length is 16". If you go shorter on either the barrel lengths OR the overall lengths, it's a big no no if you don't have the SBS/SBR stamp & paperwork.

 

As Carter mentions, there is now a niche ruling that is an exception to that. Similar to the ruling about having a VFG on a pistol that is 26".

 

And now there is a very new letter to Black Aces Firearms that seems to indicate that even this is a legal non-NFA firearm. This is significant as the ruling seems to defacto expand the allowance of just what constitutes to legal overall length on a firearm and also legislates for the first time how a firearm is actually discharged.

 

 

I'd let that last one play out for a bit before configuring one myself though, for several reasons.

 

- OS

Edited December 14, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[Murgatroy]

well yes i knew all of this...lol my original question is how to actually cut the barrel or a gunsmith around murfreeaboro that would do it...and WOW...deff not paying $649 for one lol i can get 2 Mossberg JIC's for that lol

My post was for the two guys telling you that it was illegal to go forward with this.

 

I wouldn't pay those prices, nor the price for the 14" factory barrel. 

 

What you will find though is that you can't cut to 14" as the mag tube is longer than that. That is why most of the guides discuss buying $400 worth of parts. I think 16" is as short as you can get with just a good old fashioned hacksaw and no new parts. But don't quote me on that.

 

As far as a smith, you might be hard pressed to find one that isn't skittish, as this isn't a known variable. While it is legal, it is full of a lot of misinformation. Which means a chop saw, some files and a refinish might be the easier path than paying someone.

[Guest carter]

My post was for the two guys telling you that it was illegal to go forward with this.

 

I wouldn't pay those prices, nor the price for the 14" factory barrel. 

 

What you will find though is that you can't cut to 14" as the mag tube is longer than that. That is why most of the guides discuss buying $400 worth of parts. I think 16" is as short as you can get with just a good old fashioned hacksaw and no new parts. But don't quote me on that.

 

As far as a smith, you might be hard pressed to find one that isn't skittish, as this isn't a known variable. While it is legal, it is full of a lot of misinformation. Which means a chop saw, some files and a refinish might be the easier path than paying someone.

ya that's what I'm thinking... also was thinking to get a good true straight cut i could maybe tape the barrel on each side with some electric tape and use one of those small metal tube cutters u tighten and spin... so all you really do to the end is do a little filing to knock the edges off?

[Oh Shoot]

ya that's what I'm thinking... also was thinking to get a good true straight cut i could maybe tape the barrel on each side with some electric tape and use one of those small metal tube cutters u tighten and spin... so all you really do to the end is do a little filing to knock the edges off?

 

That seems to be what most folks do who cut one themselves. Pretty forgiving technique since no crown necessary.

 

- OS

Edited December 14, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[cknight8]

My apologies, I stand corrected.  I wasn't aware of any new changes to the law...

[DaveTN]

If you know anyone at a machine shop or plumping shop they probably have an abrasive cut-off saw. Short of cutting it off in a lathe; that will give you the best cut.

However, The legality of this in Tennessee hinges on the word “designed” (39-17-1301. Part definitions) in the definition of a shotgun. Unless there is case law on this you could find yourself being the test case.

[Oh Shoot]

If you know anyone at a machine shop or plumping shop they probably have an abrasive cut-off saw. Short of cutting it off in a lathe; that will give you the best cut.

However, The legality of this in Tennessee hinges on the word “designed” (39-17-1301. Part definitions) in the definition of a shotgun. Unless there is case law on this you could find yourself being the test case.

 

""Shotgun" means any firearm designed, made or adapted to be fired from the shoulder.." It was never designed to be fired from the shoulder. Never had a stock on it from day one.

 

But that's the same as federal, too. TN to my knowledge has always acceded to federal laws and rulings regarding firearms.

 

The >12 " barrel for a "handgun" is the only glaring exception I know of. Know of no case where it has ever been tested though.

 

Yes, I know the punk in middle TN got charged with having SBR for a .223 pistol, etc. I'd say if that had been you or I,  we might well could have picked up a good payday from that, btw.

 

 

- OS

Edited December 14, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[Keyless]

 Just remember that just because it shoots a shotgun shell does not make it a shotgun. The pistol grip only ones are not classified as a shotgun but as firearm or other or something like that but they are not called a "shotgun" . I was told that it must not come with a stock like the combo units or ever had a stock installed and must have came as a PGO or Pistol Grip Only model . Not being a " Shotgun" means the 18" rule does not apply .

 

 That is why the 26" overall comes into play so that it is not an AOW . If you go with the 14" Shockwave grip method , I think you will also have to move the barrel mounting lug . That is one reason people buy the factory 14" barrel .

 

Shock wave did have a parts list but I am not seeing it on there site now . 

[A.J. Holst]

Not sure I would want to discharge a pistol gripped short barrel shotgun.

I think I'd spend the money to build and own a SBR version

[maroonandwhite]

I cut one off about a year ago and used a band saw. It left a nice smooth straight cut and I just had to deburr it a little and slap some cold blue on it. Then I shot it a few times and sold it haha.

[swim615]

Just great thanks so much for showing me another pistol I'm going to have to start saving for. Thanks

[itchytriggerfinger]

I personally think pistol grip shotguns are brutal to shoot.  I think one in the configuration shown by the OP may break your wrist :)

[Spots]

You'll definitely have to change the mag tube to go to 14". This is one I cut down friday. We cut it down on a mini mill and did one facing cut so its perfectly flat and straight. It took about 30 min. A hacksaw will do the same thing as long you have a guide like Dolomite mentioned. That said, I have shot several pistol grip only shotguns, with both 18" and shorter barrels. To me its nothing but a painful range toy. Hard to aim, hard to control for a follow up shot and does about the same damage on both ends lol. The only plus to me is manuverability, but I would only build one for a toy or a breaching gun.

[Alleycat72]

Cut it a little long with a saw and use this
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/997182/ptg-barrel-muzzle-crown-facing-tool-piloted-12-gauge-high-speed-steel

[TGO David]

Randy Weaver cut off a shotgun barrel below 18" and you see what it got him.

 

Some folks may not understand the reference, so please try to include more than a parting shot.  This is a subject worth being a little more verbose about since we're essentially talking about the difference between freedom and incarceration.

 

For those who have no idea who Randy Weaver is or what it's relevant to this discussion, click here:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Weaver

[Alleycat72]

[TNWNGR]

If your going to DIY then either go the route Dolomite mentioned or use a good grade steel pipe cutter to do most of the cut and finish up with a hacksaw and the reamer alleycat's shown here. But if you have access to a full size metal lathe that's the preferred route. Discuss it with any good gunsmith and see how much they charge. My gunsmith let me use his lathe to cut down a NEF Pardner barrel to 24" and even talked me through some of the set up. Make dead certain what your doing is legal and always have a laminated copy of the ATF letter with you because you are going to run into trouble with this little project.