AR Pistol

[70Stingray]

I am looking at building a ar pistol. I am wanting a 10.5 barrel. I have read the laws and understand as much as I can. This will be a dedicated pistol as long as I own it. I understand the buffer tube vs stock I think.

Does this require a tax stamp?

If it does not, what could I do to make it dedicated. If this one of those really stupid question, just delete and I'll understand.

[Oh Shoot]

I am looking at building a ar pistol. I am wanting a 10.5 barrel. I have read the laws and understand as much as I can. This will be a dedicated pistol as long as I own it. I understand the buffer tube vs stock I think.

Does this require a tax stamp?

If it does not, what could I do to make it dedicated. If this one of those really stupid question, just delete and I'll understand.

 

No tax stamp, it's in the normal handgun classification.

 

Federally, a pistol must be made from a receiver (lower in case of AR) that was not initially configured as a rifle. Once it is a pistol, it can also be made into a rifle and go back and forth between pistol and rifle. It's a "dedicated" pistol while it is in pistol configuration, but could also be a "dedicated" rifle while in legal rifle configuration. :)

 

In some states all handguns must be registered, and I have no idea whether they must stay handguns or not under those various state laws, but TN of course has none of that sort of thing. The only quirk we have is that there is a definition of "handgun" as having a barrel under 12". Not that having one with a + 12" barrel is illegal, and TN code does not say what it becomes, only that I suppose it would not technically be legit to carry on person with an HCP.

 

- OS

Edited December 11, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[Erik88]

Mac, they should make you a Subject Matter Expert here on TGO. When it comes to gun laws you are the first person I look to.

 

Now, walk away because I can imagine you're blushing right now.  :wave:

[70Stingray]

Some of my reading came up with intent with other parts laying around. Maybe reading to much too fast. Legal form is all that matters?

[Oh Shoot]

Some of my reading came up with intent with other parts laying around. Maybe reading to much too fast. Legal form is all that matters?

 

As long as you have a "useful purpose other than making an NFA firearm" for anything in your parts collection, you're cool. Parts are everything, loose, or installed into complete firearm.

 

It's not whether you can make something unlawful, but whether you can also make something lawful.

 

Note that "parts in close proximity" extends to your whole property by case law. Obviously if you're out and about with stuff, you need to be more careful. Like not having a stock with a pistol only, or a vertical forward grip with a pistol only that's under 26", stuff like that.

 

Hold a part or component in your hand. Among all the stuff you have:

 

- is there something illegal I can do with it?

    - if no, fine

    - if yes, is there also something legal I can do with it?

          - if yes, fine

          - if no, don't have it

 

 

Short take since you're talking AR pistol. If the only AR stuff you own is the pistol, don't have a stock in your possession period. If it's less than 26" in overall length, don't have a vertical forward grip in your possession either. Short of full auto components or a silencer, those are the only two possible gotchas.

 

- OS

Edited December 11, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[Oh Shoot]

Mac, they should make you a Subject Matter Expert here on TGO. When it comes to gun laws you are the first person I look to.

 

Now, walk away because I can imagine you're blushing right now.  :wave:

 

Aww garsh...thanks. But technically, most of my comments in this forum are not about actual NFA stuff at all, but rather about issues that are not really NFA, even though some folks may think they are, like current topic -- main reason I ever pipe up here.

 

I certainly don't know many of the finer points about true NFA subtleties; I don't even have an NFA item.

 

- OS

Edited December 11, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[Dirtshooter]

Hey OS, I am always confused about the parts you can have if you also have an AR pistol. If I have an AR pistol does that mean that I can't also own a AR rifle as it has a stock and possibly a forward grip?? Just asking.

[KKing]

Hey OS, I am always confused about the parts you can have if you also have an AR pistol. If I have an AR pistol does that mean that I can't also own a AR rifle as it has a stock and possibly a forward grip?? Just asking.

While I'm not OS, yes you may own both. If you were not able there would be multitudes, including me, in violation of federal law.

In the case you mentioned, you have a legal use for the stock and foregrip (a gun with a barrel greater than 16") so there is nothing to worry about. See post #5

Now, I would not ride around in the car with a stock and my AR pistol, there's no proof there that you have a legal use for the stock since your gun with a barrel greater than 16" is not present, but that's me personally Edited December 19, 2014 by KKing

[Ron Padilla]

are there certain types of forward veriticle grips that are legal, I cant think of any brands or names at the moment, but they are the ones that have a small piece of horizontal mounting and small verticle grip, hope this question is understood

[KKing]

are there certain types of forward veriticle grips that are legal, I cant think of any brands or names at the moment, but they are the ones that have a small piece of horizontal mounting and small verticle grip, hope this question is understood

There are no vertical grips that are ok on a pistol with less that 26" overall length. What you are referring to are the Magpul AFG and Strike Industries cobra grip and those like them, that are not vertical grips at all. They are fine on any length weapon because they aren't considered vertical grips. These...



Edited December 19, 2014 by KKing

[Ron Padilla]

Thanks .

that is what I am refering to or a slight variation of those

[Oh Shoot]

Hey OS, I am always confused about the parts you can have if you also have an AR pistol. If I have an AR pistol does that mean that I can't also own a AR rifle as it has a stock and possibly a forward grip?? Just asking.

How is post 5 not clear? You either have a legal useful purpose for a part or you do not.

Here is a perfectly legal assemblege of stuff to be out and about with (lower was first a pistol).  Each component can be used in a legal configuration.  There is no component for which there is only an illegal use.
 


However, without the 16" barreled upper, you would have "made" an NFA firearm whether you actually assembled the lower, short barreled upper, and stock at same time or not.
 

....
Now, I would not ride around in the car with a stock and my AR pistol, there's no proof there that you have a legal use for the stock since your gun with a barrel greater than 16" is not present, but that's me personally

 
Yep. Even if you have a pistol buffer tube on your pistol, would be foolish to have a stock with you also with no legal use for it. "Attachable" in federal ruling is not defined. Tape could "attach" it. Perhaps just bracing it against the tube "attaches" it. Whatever. Why poke the bear?

 

Again, if all I owned were an AR pistol, and no rifle barrel in my mix of parts, I wouldn't even own a stock, (or a VFG if my pistol were under 26" legal OAL).

- OS

Edited December 19, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[Ron Padilla]

oh shoot, what triger type do you like to use for botha pistol and rifle build, and dont mean to hijack the thread.

 

Thanks

[Oh Shoot]

oh shoot, what triger type do you like to use for botha pistol and rifle build, and dont mean to hijack the thread.

 

Thanks

 

All my AR stuff just have standard trigger groups from LPKs. A couple do have Dolomite's set screw mod in them that eliminates takeup, and he did do just a touch of sanding on them to make them smoother, but all still have the standard ~ 5-6 lb pull weight as far as I know.

 

- OS

Edited December 20, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[Ron Padilla]

ok thanks for the info

[Dustbuster]

the satin blue bedsheets are cool!

[Oh Shoot]

the satin blue bedsheets are cool!

 

Left over from my early seduction days. Really, they are around 40 years old. Kind of gives pix that Hollywood title look a lot of old movies used to use I think.

 

- OS

[Dolomite_supafly]

All my AR stuff just have standard trigger groups from LPKs. A couple do have Dolomite's set screw mod in them that eliminates takeup, and he did do just a touch of sanding on them to make them smoother, but all still have the standard ~ 5-6 lb pull weight as far as I know.

- OS

Those triggers should be a bit lighter. Most that were done ended up with a trigger under 4.5 pound and the majority are under 4 pounds.

If the stars align correctly a 3-3.5 trigger is a possibility and if you gave your first born to the AR gods that simple trigger job results in a trigger that has zero take up, nearly zero over travel and with a pull weight under 3 pounds.

I had one that was a reliable sub 2 pound trigger. I will say I bumped it up to 3 pounds because 2 pounds was just too light for a range toy that a lot of people shoot.

I try to have ~3 pound trigger in all my personal ARs and as you know I ONLY use milspec triggers.

There are a few other tricks to eleminate the amount of pretravel and over travel but you are getting into the territory where hammer follow is a possibility.

But even adding the setscrew, tuning the hammer spring and a very slight polish on the nose of the trigger will give you an immense improvement. I will caution anyone considering doing a trigger yourself to leave the hammer alone. There is no need to mess with the engagement on the hammer and doing so often results in an unsafe gun. I HAVE been there and done that. I bet I have ruined 25 sets of FCGs over the years figuring out what works and what doesn't.

[Dustbuster]

Just did a trigger job on a pistol w your kit. Worked great on a billet lower, that didn't need too much adjusting.

[70Stingray]

Thanks OS! Info is very helpful. My biggest worry was the ability to swap uppers on a road trip. Even though they are in legal form. I did purchase a lower and starting my first pistol build.

Ron, I don't see any hijacking here...glad you posted.

[Wingshooter]

I'm trying to get educated to build my first pistol and found this thread with the search. Most of my questions have already been answered, but what about buffer tubes? I seem to remember reading in the past that it is fine to use a standard tube that can accept a stock as long as one is not installed and the conditions of post #5 are met, or is a "pistol" buffer tube required?

 

In other words, can the pic in post #12 still be considered a pistol with that buffer tube without the stock? I think I know the answer but want to be certain.

 

 

 

I plan to build a 8.5" bbl, 300BO. May or may not do the SigBrace... haven't decided yet. It will eventually be suppressed.

[Tobashadow]

I'm trying to get educated to build my first pistol and found this thread with the search. Most of my questions have already been answered, but what about buffer tubes? I seem to remember reading in the past that it is fine to use a standard tube that can accept a stock as long as one is not installed and the conditions of post #5 are met, or is a "pistol" buffer tube required?

In other words, can the pic in post #12 still be considered a pistol with that buffer tube without the stock? I think I know the answer but want to be certain.



I plan to build a 8.5" bbl, 300BO. May or may not do the SigBrace... haven't decided yet. It will eventually be suppressed.

Of you have a stockable buffer tube you are asking for trouble, I'd use a good pistol tube.

I always have parts around so I used a pistol tube just so I couldn't be told I had intent to build a illegal sbr.

[Oh Shoot]

..I seem to remember reading in the past that it is fine to use a standard tube that can accept a stock as long as one is not installed and the conditions of post #5 are met,...

Yes.
 

In other words, can the pic in post #12 still be considered a pistol with that buffer tube without the stock

 

Yes.

 

 

Of you have a stockable buffer tube you are asking for trouble, I'd use a good pistol tube.

I always have parts around so I used a pistol tube just so I couldn't be told I had intent to build a illegal sbr.

 

-  Nobody has been hammered for "constructive possession" in 23 years unless they were clearly in violation

-  A pistol tube does not make you immune, same conditions apply regarding all your parts

-  No intent is required whatsoever to be in violation - you have either "made" an NFA firearm or you have not, and you don't have to have actually constructed it to have "made" it.

 

All, that said, note that my "kit" you referenced in post 12 was back during the panic when AR stuff was hard to get and pricey when you could. Everything AR is cheaper now than it has ever been, so it's not much of an outlay to use a dedicated lower/tube, and I have to admit a "pistol" tube has a certain aesthetic appeal, sort of looks more "complete" or something. And even with the flurry of bizarre ATF opinions regarding various of them on various platforms, folks are still using braces (including me), and none of them will fit on a carbine tube.

 

 

- OS

Edited March 22, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[70Stingray]

I decided to go see Mr Wells and get a gun trust. Just the best logical answer to end all questionable doubt.

[Oh Shoot]

I decided to go see Mr Wells and get a gun trust. Just the best logical answer to end all questionable doubt.

 

NFA considerations aside, a handgun has certain legal advantages over a long gun in any number of states -- that's a significant contributory reason for their popularity. Until last summer there were two big ones in TN, now just one.

 

- OS

Edited March 23, 2015 by Oh Shoot