Barb Sturgeon Case

[tnguy]

I have no idea of this woman as a politician but was wondering what people thought and whether any good might eventually come from this or whether it is an open and shut case and should we be lending our support:

 

http://www.wkrn.com/story/27568898/williamson-commissioner-indicted-by-grand-jury-on-gun-charge.

 

I guess the real take away here is not to consent to a search (having seen something on Facebook is not probable cause I don't think).

Edited December 8, 2014 by tnguy

[Jamie Jackson]

I read the article but don't know anything else about this particular case.

 

What I do know is that this is a law that should be changed. There is no reason that TN couldn't either enact an "Enhanced Permit System" like MS does, or do away with this restriction for a valid permit holder altogether.

[E4 No More]

As a former LEO I wouldn't consider it PC.

[Ugly]

I think an honest person has been turned into a criminal.

[peejman]

That does seem like quite a stretch of PC.  Where was the school board meeting?  And why was a cop there (is that normal?)?

[daddyo]

I don't know this woman, but I do know that if any of us were in the same circumstances, we would be prosecuted. She should be treated no differently.

[Cherokee Slim]

One story said that she posted a picture of her new purse with concealed holster compartment on her Facebook page.  Not a wise move.

Cherokee Slim

Edited December 8, 2014 by Cherokee Slim

[Omega]

While she might have a defense considering the PC portion, she did bring a gun into a non-gun zone and should be prosecuted if the court rules there was sufficient probable cause.  I will not say whether or not I may or may not of done the same thing but if I were ever to be caught in such circumstances I would expect to be charged as well, but I too would fight it if I had any defense whatsoever. 

 

On the PC part of it, I don't believe there is sufficient cause to search her.  I don't use facebook and don't post on any social sites except boards like this.  But if I happened to post a picture of say a homemade can with "MADE in TN" stamped on it, I would not BTW, or of me shooting a FA AR on the range I would not expect to receive a visit from any federal workers because of it even if my AR looks identical to the one on the video. 

[DaveTN]

On the PC part of it, I don't believe there is sufficient cause to search her.

She has an HCP; unless she is going to lie they didn't need to search her, just ask if she was carrying.

[Omega]

She has an HCP; unless she is going to lie they didn't need to search her, just ask if she was carrying.

SO?  Just because you have an HCP does not mean you can be approached at all.  And she does not have to respond to such a question, she could of plead the 5th and that alone is not a reason to search, though I know it does make you wonder.

[DaveTN]

SO?  Just because you have an HCP does not mean you can be approached at all.  And she does not have to respond to such a question, she could of plead the 5th and that alone is not a reason to search, though I know it does make you wonder.

It’s a crime in this state to carry a gun. You can be stopped if an Officer thinks you are carrying or if someone calls in on you. You can refuse to answer; but you will likely have your permit revoked.

[tnguy]

Note that I am not saying that there was or needed to be PC. From what I can tell, the search was requested and she consented.

 

If she had refused, it's hard to see what they could have done to her. If she were carrying, arguably she should disclose or else *penalty* but if she also did not, there's not much they could really have done because again, no PC.

 

I suspect some of this may come down to what language was used to initiate the search thinking about it.

 

The real problem I was trying to bring up though is school property that may not seem like school property. It could theoretically get any of us and I'm wondering if we should push for this kind of place to be posted (or exempt). Though I am open to the argument that she should have known. It isn't stated in the article but this was the support services building in Franklin.

 

Edit: This report states that the building is clearly posted so she almost certainly should have known

 

http://www.wkrn.com/story/27416523/williamson-county-commissioner-accused-of-bringing-gun-to-school

Edited December 8, 2014 by tnguy

[Omega]

It’s a crime in this state to carry a gun. You can be stopped if an Officer thinks you are carrying or if someone calls in on you. You can refuse to answer; but you will likely have your permit revoked.

Not with a HCP, but I think you mean in her case and location.  An officer still needs to have PC, even if someone calls in on you.  Were would we be if just a call could be used to enter your home to search or subject you to a physical search.

 

Note that I am not saying that there was or needed to be PC. From what I can tell, the search was requested and she consented.

The part of her consenting is the rub, but I don't think she was required to consent.  She could of just left the premises and that would of been that.  Of course I don't think she would of been allowed to leave but then her 4th amendment rights would of been violated even more at that point IMO.

[E4 No More]

She has an HCP; unless she is going to lie they didn't need to search her, just ask if she was carrying.

I don't think that would qualify as a spontaneous confession.

 

EDIT: Unless they asked everyone, (which I doubt), they singled her out because of a FB post.

Edited December 8, 2014 by SWJewellTN

[tnguy]

As far as I can tell, this is the location of the building in question. Unfortunately Google streetview is just black for me right now. Excuse me while I adjust my tinfoil hat ;)

 

https://goo.gl/maps/T2les

[Omega]

I don't think that would qualify as a spontaneous confession.

 

EDIT: Unless they asked everyone, (which I doubt), they singled her out because of a FB post.

They have before, but in this case the police had better sense than to make an arrest: http://www.wsmv.com/story/19137384/3-people-carry-guns-into-movie-theater-in-putnam-county

[E4 No More]

They have before, but in this case the police had better sense than to make an arrest: http://www.wsmv.com/story/19137384/3-people-carry-guns-into-movie-theater-in-putnam-county

Not the same thing although they made things easier on their selves. In this case an employee saw a weapon. I'd bet he/she couldn't ID the subject so they just asked.

[E4 No More]

Judging from some of the comments under that article she wasn't liked: therefore, it leads me to believe that she was targeted. Of course I could be wrong, but having seen how local governments work I doubt it.

[DaveTN]

I don't think that would qualify as a spontaneous confession.

It doesn’t need to be a confession at all. Do you have a handgun carry permit and are you carrying? It’s a question. At that point she has a decision to make.

EDIT: Unless they asked everyone, (which I doubt), they singled her out because of a FB post.

If someone called them there because they think she has a gun in a school (or anywhere else); they probably aren’t going to leave until they determine that. If someone steps forward and says they saw it; it’s a done deal.

I doubt they would do much other than ask her if someone says they called because they saw her post on FB. But they are going to ask her and they are going to ask her to voluntarily let them look in her purse.

We don't know what the Officers were told when they arrived, so we have no idea what would happen after that.

[Ugly]

Either way, the gun free zones must be working!

[jtmaze]

This looks like a case of getting rid of a political opponent. She did not CYA so she is gone. Move on nothing to see here.


JTM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[peejman]

This looks like a case of getting rid of a political opponent. She did not CYA so she is gone. Move on nothing to see here.


JTM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Had a similar thought. The HCP and showing off a carry purse would give the impression that she's not the bleeding heart liberal type. Can't imagine that any of her peers on the school board would approve of such things and would rat her out at the first opportunity....

[E4 No More]

It doesn’t need to be a confession at all. Do you have a handgun carry permit and are you carrying? It’s a question. At that point she has a decision to make.
If someone called them there because they think she has a gun in a school (or anywhere else); they probably aren’t going to leave until they determine that. If someone steps forward and says they saw it; it’s a done deal.

I doubt they would do much other than ask her if someone says they called because they saw her post on FB. But they are going to ask her and they are going to ask her to voluntarily let them look in her purse.

We don't know what the Officers were told when they arrived, so we have no idea what would happen after that.

Speculate is all we do on this forum. We weren't there: therefore, we do not know how it went down. I commented solely on what was said in the article which specifically mentions a Facebook post. What is the relevance of that comment if it didn't have significant bearing on the story?

 

I've seen "political" maneuvering like this before specifically designed to remove someone from their seat but able to be thrown out by a competent lawyer AFTER the damage is done.

[RED333]

There is a sign on every school building, at the drive way onto the parking lot as well.

I do not know the exact wording, but you are on their property you are gona be searched if needed.

I have to work at schools sometimes, the signs are there.

The story I heard is someone saw the pistol in her bag and made a call.

Franklin is growing very leftest these days.

[DWARREN123]

This is what happens when folks give out too much information about their personal business.

Also do not carry where you are not suppose to or pay the price.