Question About Coast Guard Boarding Vessels

[Guest C4Dave]

The Coast Guard visitied me the other day on the Mississippi River. I was in my 19' fishing boat. The wanted to know if I have any weapons on board.

They also stopped a buddy that same day. They asked him if he had ever been boarded by the CG.

Do they have the right to board a private vessel without permission? Can they search without a warrant?

I looked at the CG website, and I didn't see the answer.

[fizik]

That seems weird for the CG to be boarding people on the MS River that far north....you do something to cause that, or was it random?

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Short answer... no, they do not require a warrant to carry out search and seizure on the water. It falls under 14 USC 89.

14 USC 89 - Sec. 89. Law enforcement

(a) The Coast Guard may make inquiries, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests upon the high seas and waters over which the United States has jurisdiction, for the prevention, detection, and suppression of violations of laws of the United States.

For such purposes, commissioned, warrant, and petty officers may at any time go on board of any vessel subject to the jurisdiction, or to the operation of any law, of the United States, address inquiries to those on board, examine the ship's documents and papers, and examine, inspect, and search the vessel and use all necessary force to compel compliance.

When from such inquiries, examination, inspection, or search it appears that a breach of the laws of the United States rendering a person liable to arrest is being, or has been committed, by any person, such person shall be arrested or, if escaping to shore, shall be immediately pursued and arrested on shore, or other lawful and appropriate action shall be taken; or, if it shall appear that a breach of the laws of the United States has been committed so as to render such vessel, or the merchandise, or any part thereof, on board of, or brought into the United States by, such vessel, liable to forfeiture, or so as to render such vessel liable to a fine or penalty and if necessary to secure such fine or penalty, such vessel or such merchandise, or both, shall be seized. ( The officers of the Coast Guard insofar as they are engaged, pursuant to the authority contained in this section, in enforcing any law of the United States shall: (1) be deemed to be acting as agents of the particular executive department or independent establishment charged with the administration of the particular law; and (2) be subject to all the rules and regulations promulgated by such department or independent establishment with respect to the enforcement of that law. © The provisions of this section are in addition to any powers conferred by law upon such officers, and not in limitation of any powers conferred by law upon such officers, or any other officers of the United States.

[Guest bkelm18]

Edited: Misread.

Edited October 27, 2008 by bkelm18

[Curiousgb]

Anytime anywhere in US waters. They used to call us the Sea Nazi's in Key West.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Edited: Misread.

Engrish Class > you

[Guest bkelm18]

[TGO David]

Yep... perfectly legal for them to do so. When you're on public waterways, you have no expectations of "privacy" and the boat is not an extension of your home. No such thing as unlawful search and seizure.

[Guest Revelator]

I don't know maritime law that well, and I could see them boarding a fishing boat or pontoon-type boat anytime, but what about a yacht or houseboat? Does this statute allow them to just circumvent the 4th amendment like that? One thing a court is going to look at when examining a search is the expectation of privacy the owner had in the area searched. I would think that with a yacht or houseboat that would be just like in an actual home; that is, a very high expectation of privacy. But this law says "any vessel" so wow...that's kind of troubling. Now one difference between watercraft and a regular home is that watercraft are mobile so that might reduce the expectation and give the government more leeway, but even with cars they still need either consent to search or a warrant (unless it's impounded, then it's open season).

Edit: well, Tungsten sort of answered it. I didn't see his post when I was typing mine.

Edited October 27, 2008 by P. Stegall

[Mike.357]

so is there a problem with being armed on you boat? Of course providing that you have a HCP.

[Guest Revelator]

so is there a problem with being armed on you boat? Of course providing that you have a HCP.

It depends on where you are and whether state or federal laws apply. Like if you're on a lake that's part of a state or national park and you've got a gun on your boat, that could be bad news. But on a place like the MS river, I don't know of any laws that would prohibit it.

[Curiousgb]

I don't know maritime law that well, and I could see them boarding a fishing boat or pontoon-type boat anytime, but what about a yacht or houseboat? Does this statute allow them to just circumvent the 4th amendment like that? One thing a court is going to look at when examining a search is the expectation of privacy the owner had in the area searched. I would think that with a yacht or houseboat that would be just like in an actual home; that is, a very high expectation of privacy. But this law says "any vessel" so wow...that's kind of troubling. Now one difference between watercraft and a regular home is that watercraft are mobile so that might reduce the expectation and give the government more leeway, but even with cars they still need either consent to search or a warrant (unless it's impounded, then it's open season).

Edit: well, Tungsten sort of answered it. I didn't see his post when I was typing mine.

Doesn't matter. They can board anything they want, from dingy to freighter. As long as it is in US navigable waters. They don't need a reason.

[Guest Revelator]

Doesn't matter. They can board anything they want, from dingy to freighter. As long as it is in US navigable waters. They don't need a reason.

Well, there you go. If I learn nothing else today, this will have been an informative day.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Well, there you go. If I learn nothing else today, this will have been an informative day.

The USCG's ability to take over control (temp change of command) of a US Navy vessel and conduct their mission is pretty interesting too. I never realized that there are USCG members on board Naval ships for that purpose (jurisdiction), but a friend/sailor was telling me about it. Still unsure of the exact details, but maybe one of our resident ex-squids can chime in. Pretty cool deal.

[Guest bkelm18]

The USCG's ability to take over control (temp change of command) of a US Navy vessel and conduct their mission is pretty interesting too. I never realized that there are USCG members on board Naval ships for that purpose (jurisdiction), but a friend/sailor was telling me about it. Still unsure of the exact details, but maybe one of our resident ex-squids can chime in. Pretty cool deal.

Not sure about that, there weren't any USCG officers on my ship. I'd like to see what would happen when they commandeer an aircraft carrier, haha. I'm sure they can only do it with certain classes of ships. However we did have USCG escorts coming in and out of the Chesapeake Bay.

[Magiccarpetrides]

So is it legal or not to carry a gun aboard a boat on the MS river?

[Guest Revelator]

So is it legal or not to carry a gun aboard a boat on the MS river?

There isn't any kind of general "no water carry" law in Tennessee, so unless you're in a part that happens to be in a state park (and I don't know if there are any along the MS river) I think you'd be ok. I carried my gun on a boat once; it was a friend's pontoon boat. I didn't like it. Gave me a weird feeling all day long. I did it only because I didn't want to leave it in the car, but I don't think I'd do it again.

[Guest GT_Rat]

The USCG's ability to take over control (temp change of command) of a US Navy vessel and conduct their mission is pretty interesting too. I never realized that there are USCG members on board Naval ships for that purpose (jurisdiction), but a friend/sailor was telling me about it. Still unsure of the exact details, but maybe one of our resident ex-squids can chime in. Pretty cool deal.

I believe the only time they do that is when the Navy is doing drug interdiction operations. They do it so if a suspect vessel flees from open water (Navy Jurisdiction) to US Coastal Waters (Coast Guard Jurisdiction) they can still board and seize the vessel. That was my take on it anyway. I could be wrong.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

I believe the only time they do that is when the Navy is doing drug interdiction operations. They do it so if a suspect vessel flees from open water (Navy Jurisdiction) to US Coastal Waters (Coast Guard Jurisdiction) they can still board and seize the vessel. That was my take on it anyway. I could be wrong.

Think you're right. I actually recall him mentioning it having something to do with drugs.

[Curiousgb]

I believe the only time they do that is when the Navy is doing drug interdiction operations. They do it so if a suspect vessel flees from open water (Navy Jurisdiction) to US Coastal Waters (Coast Guard Jurisdiction) they can still board and seize the vessel. That was my take on it anyway. I could be wrong.

They call them Crack Pac's. CG LE Detachments (LEDET) are onboard Navy vessels to perform LE functions, as the Navy does not have LE authority to perform LE roles. We (CG) use Navy Assets to do Drug Interdiction. We have been doing it for many years. What you might not realize is how often ships are boarded by the CG outside US waters. Many wild and crazy things happen out there, but if I told you I would have to kill you.

[Guest GT_Rat]

I guess I didn't forget too much from 17 years ago.

[KahrMan]

They call them Crack Pac's. CG LE Detachments (LEDET) are onboard Navy vessels to perform LE functions, as the Navy does not have LE authority to perform LE roles. We (CG) use Navy Assets to do Drug Interdiction. We have been doing it for many years. What you might not realize is how often ships are boarded by the CG outside US waters. Many wild and crazy things happen out there, but if I told you I would have to kill you.

Just wondering but what authority does the CG have to board ships outside of US waters?

[TGO David]

Just wondering but what authority does the CG have to board ships outside of US waters?

http://www.slate.com/id/1007689/

Under federal law, the Coast Guard's mandate includes arresting traffickers even if they are on the high seas--that is, far outside any country's territorial boundaries. Toward this effort the United States has cooperative agreements with many other nations to intercept drug activity. And several U.S. federal agencies, including the Department of Defense and the Customs Service, are charged with monitoring possible drug trafficking far outside our borders.

...

Because Defense personnel are prohibited from directly engaging in law enforcement activities, the ship had on it a Coast Guard law enforcement detachment. When a suspicious vessel is identified at sea, the Coast Guard notifies the State Department, which then gets permission from the vessel's flag nation for the Coast Guard to board. (In the rare instances when permission is denied, the Coast Guard will generally monitor the vessel as it approaches U.S. territory.)

[Guest bkelm18]

Many wild and crazy things happen out there, but if I told you I would have to kill you.

Crazy parties with hot russian hookers and mounds of blow?? I knew I should have been a Coastie.

[Guest C4Dave]

So is it legal or not to carry a gun aboard a boat on the MS river?

It's legal to carry on the MS river, but the problem is getting to the river. Memphis (Shelby County) has 3 public boat ramps. And all 3 are on park land.

Is there a way to transport a firearm on park land? Maybe unloaded and stored inside the boat?