Traveling with someone that may have marijuana for work.

[Guest S4boost]

In either scenario I would provide my identification and let them search , cause I don't go around with illegal things in my car. Which was the original topic. And wether or not I would talk would depend on the scenario. If we got pulled over for speeding Id let them searxh me and be on my way. If I was involved in a shooting I would probably want an attorney. Unless the story spoke for itself. Like a robbery etc. The "street attorneys" are teaching criminals how to get away with stuff. Again I ask who's side are we on? I mean don't we carry to deter criminals from committing crimes and to protect ourselves from criminals wanting to harm ourselves our loved ones and our neighbors? Having police patrol the streets and ask for id's is a necessary evil that helps to prevent us from ever needing our fire arm. I don't like getting harassed by the police as much as the next guy, but if they get one criminal off the street for every 10 law abiding citizen they harass, I'm fine with that. Edited January 7, 2015 by S4boost

[monkeylizard]

Whatever happened to cooperating with the police... Is that not a thing anymore?

 

Cooperation <> forfeiting my rights. 

 

I look at it this way. Nothing good can come to me by consenting to a search. If I don't consent, they can't search and I go on my way. If I do consent and they find nothing, then I go on my way. However, if I consent and they find something, perhaps something I didn't know I had*, or that's not actually ilegal but the officer thinks it is (switchblade in the console, perhaps?), then my day gets bad fast. If they have PC (or think they do), they don't need my consent and they'll search whether I consent or not. Arguing about whether they really have PC or not or if something is actually illegal or not is for an attorney and a judge to discuss, not me and an officer on the side of the road.

 

That's not to say that I'm going to be a disrespectful ass-clown to an officer. I'm not going to make their job hard, but I'm not going to make their job easy at my expense. If I get stopped, I roll down my windows, turn on my interior lights, shut off the car, and place both hands on the wheel. I'll present my DL and HCP and inform the officer if I'm armed or not and if so, how and where I'm armed. I will respectfully decline any requests to search my vehicle. That's cooperating. Voluntarily participating in a phishing expedition isn't cooperating, it's stupidity.

 

 

 

*I mentor a kid through Big Brothers Big Sisters of Middle Tennessee (shameless plug for http://www.mentorakid.org). It's conceivable that one of those left-handed cigarettes might find its way into that teenaged boy's pocket (you know, to hold it for a friend), then find its way out of his pocket and roll under my seat.

.

Edited January 7, 2015 by monkeylizard

[Guest S4boost]

Cooperation <> forfeiting my rights. 
 
I look at it this way. Nothing good can come to me by consenting to a search. If I don't consent, they can't search and I go on my way. If I do consent and they find nothing, then I go on my way. However, if I consent and they find something, perhaps something I didn't know I had*, or that's not actually ilegal but the officer thinks it is (switchblade in the console, perhaps?), then my day gets bad fast. If they have PC (or think they do), they don't need my consent and they'll search whether I consent or not. Arguing about whether they really have PC or not or if something is actually illegal or not is for an attorney and a judge to discuss, not me and an officer on the side of the road.
 
That's not to say that I'm going to be a disrespectful ass-clown to an officer. I'm not going to make their job hard, but I'm not going to make their job easy at my expense. If I get stopped, I roll down my windows, turn on my interior lights, shut off the car, and place both hands on the wheel. I'll present my DL and HCP and inform the officer if I'm armed or not and if so, how and where I'm armed. I will respectfully decline any requests to search my vehicle. That's cooperating. Voluntarily participating in a phishing expedition isn't cooperating, it's stupidity.
 
 
 
*I mentor a kid through Big Brothers Big Sisters of Middle Tennessee (shameless plug for http://www.mentorakid.org). It's conceivable that one of those left-handed cigarettes might find its way into that teenaged boy's pocket (you know, to hold it for a friend), then find its way out of his pocket and roll under my seat.
.

Maybe I misunderstood a previous post. But I do agree with you here. I feel as though my reaction would be similar.

Depends on what you mean by "cooperating", if you're involved are you going to talk to the police directly or ask to see/speak to your attorney before proceeding?
 
When your attorney advises you to "keep your trap shut" are you going to listen to them or "cooperate" b/c I guarantee an officer is going to consider you uncooperative if you lawyer up and don't speak in most circumstances.

I can't get away from you.... Eric. Lol

Cooperation <> forfeiting my rights. 
 
I look at it this way. Nothing good can come to me by consenting to a search. If I don't consent, they can't search and I go on my way. If I do consent and they find nothing, then I go on my way. However, if I consent and they find something, perhaps something I didn't know I had*, or that's not actually ilegal but the officer thinks it is (switchblade in the console, perhaps?), then my day gets bad fast. If they have PC (or think they do), they don't need my consent and they'll search whether I consent or not. Arguing about whether they really have PC or not or if something is actually illegal or not is for an attorney and a judge to discuss, not me and an officer on the side of the road.
 
That's not to say that I'm going to be a disrespectful ass-clown to an officer. I'm not going to make their job hard, but I'm not going to make their job easy at my expense. If I get stopped, I roll down my windows, turn on my interior lights, shut off the car, and place both hands on the wheel. I'll present my DL and HCP and inform the officer if I'm armed or not and if so, how and where I'm armed. I will respectfully decline any requests to search my vehicle. That's cooperating. Voluntarily participating in a phishing expedition isn't cooperating, it's stupidity.
 
 
 
*I mentor a kid through Big Brothers Big Sisters of Middle Tennessee (shameless plug for http://www.mentorakid.org). It's conceivable that one of those left-handed cigarettes might find its way into that teenaged boy's pocket (you know, to hold it for a friend), then find its way out of his pocket and roll under my seat.
.

Maybe I misunderstood a previous post. But I do agree with you here. I feel as though my reaction would be similar.

[2.ooohhh]

In either scenario I would provide my identification and let them search , cause I don't go around with illegal things in my car. Which was the original topic. And wether or not I would talk would depend on the scenario. If we got pulled over for speeding Id let them searxh me and be on my way. If I was involved in a shooting I would probably want an attorney. Unless the story spoke for itself. Like a robbery etc. The "street attorneys" are teaching criminals how to get away with stuff. Again I ask who's side are we on? I mean don't we carry to deter criminals from committing crimes and to protect ourselves from criminals wanting to harm ourselves our loved ones and our neighbors? Having police patrol the streets and ask for id's is a necessary evil that helps to prevent us from ever needing our fire arm. I don't like getting harassed by the police as much as the next guy, but if they get one criminal off the street for every 10 law abiding citizen they harass, I'm fine with that.

 

You should always take YOUR side, b/c otherwise it's quite likely that no one else will. I was in IL several years back before my wife and I were married. I was shooting in a backyard range owned by my now FIL. Another shooter there with the family is a police officer from a neighboring town who was dating my fiance's sister at the time. After we finished shooting he politely came over to me and mentioned for my benefit that the mags I was using were illegal in the city nearby where he works b/c they have a 10 round limit on mags on the books. He didn't arrest me or hassle me just pointed it out.(they were factory 12-rnd .40 p229 mags) I asked our family lawyer who's a DA up there about it and he looked in my bag and determined that they could charge me with 12 counts of illegal magazine possession!(one count for each mag over 10 rounds in my range bag) I didn't change anything and luckily the local law was preempted with the new carry laws in IL so I no longer have to worry about it, but it did impress upon me how fast one can go from being a law abiding citizen to the other side in a hurry in this county's patchwork of local laws.

 

In some places in this country a single round of hollow point ammo loose and forgotten in a corner of your backpack can turn you into a "criminal". That is why many of us are so wary of searches.

 

To be more relevant to the OP's question. Should you hop in my car while caravaning to H20 and we get stopped my MSP and they find a loose glock 19 mag(no ammo, no gun) you left in your backpack last range trip that was contained in my car it could be a long day for both of us.  :up:

 

. . . and no you can't escape me, it's my internet. I was here first. :cool:

[monkeylizard]

In either scenario I would provide my identification and let them search , cause I don't go around with illegal things in my car.

 

Maybe I misunderstood a previous post. But I do agree with you here. I feel as though my reaction would be similar.

 

You need to make up your mind.

[monkeylizard]

In some places in this country a single round of hollow point ammo loose and forgotten in a corner of your backpack can turn you into a "criminal". That is why many of us are so wary of searches.

 

To be more relevant to the OP's question. Should you hop in my car while caravaning to H20 and we get stopped my MSP and they find a loose glock 19 mag(no ammo, no gun) you left in your backpack last range trip that was contained in my car it could be a long day for both of us.  :up:

 

This. Absolutley nothing good can happen to you by consenting to a search that wouldn't also happen by declining the search. At best you break even by consenting and at worst you're getting a car ride. I don't like those odds.

Edited January 7, 2015 by monkeylizard

[Guest S4boost]

You need to make up your mind.

I don't know its so situational. Sorry for the thread jack haha. You've both shed some light though. Edited January 7, 2015 by S4boost

[Chucktshoes]

I just visited the thread to figure out the whole "traveling with weed for work" thing. Turns out the thread title was misleading, otherwise it sounded pretty Miami Vice.

That was last season.

[suspiciousmind]

I absolutely 100 percent never consent to a search. It's a waste of time, and it makes cops look like assholes when they try and strong arm a citizen into an illegal search.

Had a couple of dumb hillbilly cops ask to search a vehicle when I was on the road once. The cops claimed the girl driving was following another vehicle too closely and then they pulled her over. When they pulled her over they asked to search and before I could speak up she said, "Sure!"

Needless to say I lit into her about letting stupid cops ask to do illegal searches.

A moving violation is not a legal reason to search.

[suspiciousmind]

Whatever happened to cooperating with the police... Is that not a thing anymore?

I don't trust the police anymore than I trust any other stranger, which is not very much. Just because they are police officers it doesn't mean that they are infallible human beings. It doesn't take a genius to pass those tests nor does it take a person with an ironclad moral background. Just because they're cops doesn't make them experts on law either... Especially new or changed laws. Edited January 7, 2015 by suspiciousmind

[DaveTN]

This. Absolutley nothing good can happen to you by consenting to a search that wouldn't also happen by declining the search. At best you break even by consenting and at worst you're getting a car ride. I don't like those odds.

That’s not right. I never asked to search a car I didn’t already have probable cause to search. My request was merely conversation to determine how things were going to go down when I found what I was looking for. I had discretion on misdemeanors.

If you know you don’t have anything and you want to refuse, that’s fine; do so. But if you have something illegal in the car; you have a choice to make. The difference could be whether a minor in possession of alcohol was released to his parents at the stop location with no charges or the car was towed and they were taken into custody. Same thing with someone with a bag of weed or a gun.

Choices; you and the cop together will decide what your future will be. You can cooperate, remain silent, or turn into a roadside lawyer; your call.

[Guest S4boost]

Choices; you and the cop together will decide what your future will be. You can cooperate, remain silent, or turn into a roadside lawyer; your call.

I guess this is kind of my point. Sometime it's just easier to say "you're wasting my time and your own. There's nothing int the vehicle. But whatever. Go ahead if it makes you happy" I mean they can sit there and have a dog smell the outside of your car. Point is, most times the police will when. Either by making things difficult or whatever. Furthermore, if you're not cooperating it gives them the perception that you have something to hide.

This got exciting. We got weed cops and guns. Edited January 8, 2015 by S4boost

[Pain103]

I absolutely 100 percent never consent to a search. It's a waste of time, and it makes cops look like assholes when they try and strong arm a citizen into an illegal search.

Had a couple of dumb hillbilly cops ask to search a vehicle when I was on the road once. The cops claimed the girl driving was following another vehicle too closely and then they pulled her over. When they pulled her over they asked to search and before I could speak up she said, "Sure!"

Needless to say I lit into her about letting stupid cops ask to do illegal searches.

A moving violation is not a legal reason to search.

  I see you're are a fan of LE calling them dumb and stupid.

[suspiciousmind]

I see you're are a fan of LE calling them dumb and stupid.

I come from a family of law enforcement, so yes.

Edit:

To clarify, those cops were hillbilly dumbasses. But, so was the girl driving. I don't feel bad about saying this nor do I think this about all cops. I simply think that MOST people have gotten hit with the stupid stick at birth. :lol: Edited January 8, 2015 by suspiciousmind

[DaveTN]

I guess this is kind of my point. Sometime it's just easier to say "you're wasting my time and your own. There's nothing int the vehicle. But whatever. Go ahead if it makes you happy" I mean they can sit there and have a dog smell the outside of your car. Point is, most times the police will when. Either by making things difficult or whatever. Furthermore, if you're not cooperating it gives them the perception that you have something to hide.

This got exciting. We got weed cops and guns.

Two areas that I like to talk to young people about; DUI and traffic stops; they deserve to know the truth, not a load of garbage from someone that has never done a traffic stop, doesn’t know the requirements or procedures for a vehicle search, or is a lawyer that wants everyone to refuse and invoke so they can make some money.

Parents owe their kids more than telling them to refuse a search or invoke Miranda. There is a time to do that, but it’s the kids future that the dice are being rolled on. You are responsible for your actions; you need to be educated about what happens to make informed decisions.

BTW… I’m talking about the situations where there is a violation.

[monkeylizard]

That’s not right. I never asked to search a car I didn’t already have probable cause to search. My request was merely conversation to determine how things were going to go down when I found what I was looking for. I had discretion on misdemeanors.

 

In that case, you're asking out of courtesy. I can appreciate that. If an officer is asking to search and doesn't have PC already, then I still say nothing good can come of it.

[Guest S4boost]

Pc?

[Trekbike]

Pc?

Probable Cause

[Pain103]

I come from a family of law enforcement, so yes.

Edit:

To clarify, those cops were hillbilly dumbasses. But, so was the girl driving. I don't feel bad about saying this nor do I think this about all cops. I simply think that MOST people have gotten hit with the stupid stick at birth. :lol:

  After being in LE for 13 years I can say I've talked to several people that have just left me thinking the exact same thing.

 

  But as far the search topic people get too fired up on both sides. You have one side that says never consent, you are an idiot if you ever do. Than the other side says just allow it and move on if nothing to hide. I can see both sides but each person has to make their own decision and not try to influence someone else's mind. You will run into the idiots on the job who think they have to search everybody or don't know how to talk/read people to see if something shady is going on. But usually what I see on the street from the typical patrol officer is if you aren't acting super nervous or have a record a mile long I don't see people asking to search. I have actually noticed many of the new officers that have only been raised on stats/compstat they want to make a stop give a warning and move on to the next, just hoping to find somebody with a warrant because they can't talk to people or know how to do anything else.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Pain103

[Alleycat72]

That’s not right. I never asked to search a car I didn’t already have probable cause to search. My request was merely conversation to determine how things were going to go down when I found what I was looking for. I had discretion on misdemeanors.If you know you don’t have anything and you want to refuse, that’s fine; do so. But if you have something illegal in the car; you have a choice to make. The difference could be whether a minor in possession of alcohol was released to his parents at the stop location with no charges or the car was towed and they were taken into custody. Same thing with someone with a bag of weed or a gun.Choices; you and the cop together will decide what your future will be. You can cooperate, remain silent, or turn into a roadside lawyer; your call.

So you retaliated against people who exercised their rights. The people who said no should be treated exactly the same way as the people that said yes. Are the people that said no somehow more dangerous than the ones that said yes?

[Guest S4boost]

Are the people that said no somehow more dangerous than the ones that said yes?

Since this is a loaded question and I like a challenge... The answer is possibly. At the end of the day, if it's your car, you're responsible for what's in it. Whether it's little jimmy's joint, or jimbo's loose round. It's your car. You're responsible. I don't let jimmy and jimbo in my car. Nor do I ride in their car. So it doesn't matter if the police search me or not. I'm leaving in 5 regardless.

Now to play devils advocate, if you refuse, its shady. Period. Same reason why if you refuse FST you're getting a ride to the big house with a DUI charge. It's just how it is. Like I said, its a necessary evil.

Edit: You know what they say about the bad apple right? Well the bad apple is the reason we're searched and questioned... Same bad apple applies to lawful possession. What happens when 50% of the lawful gun owners and legal carriers give the police a hard time...? Then we'll really have a hard time fighting for the 2nd. Edited January 8, 2015 by S4boost

[mikegideon]

I come from a family of law enforcement, so yes.

 

 

So... you've probably been hit with one of those sticks once or twice  :rofl:

[Chucktshoes]

Since this is a loaded question and I like a challenge... The answer is possibly. At the end of the day, if it's your car, you're responsible for what's in it. Whether it's little jimmy's joint, or jimbo's loose round. It's your car. You're responsible. I don't let jimmy and jimbo in my car. Nor do I ride in their car. So it doesn't matter if the police search me or not. I'm leaving in 5 regardless.

Now to play devils advocate, if you refuse, its shady. Period. Same reason why if you refuse FST you're getting a ride to the big house with a DUI charge. It's just how it is. Like I said, its a necessary evil.

Edit: You know what they say about the bad apple right? Well the bad apple is the reason we're searched and questioned... Same bad apple applies to lawful possession. What happens when 50% of the lawful gun owners and legal carriers give the police a hard time...? Then we'll really have a hard time fighting for the 2nd.

So to protect our rights, we must surrender them, eh? Riiight.

[Guest S4boost]

No. You can "defend" them I suppose. You're just making things more difficult. Unless of course you have something you shouldn't. Then I don't pity you.

[Mike.357]

Cooperation <> forfeiting my rights. 

 

I look at it this way. Nothing good can come to me by consenting to a search. If I don't consent, they can't search and I go on my way. If I do consent and they find nothing, then I go on my way. However, if I consent and they find something, perhaps something I didn't know I had*, or that's not actually ilegal but the officer thinks it is (switchblade in the console, perhaps?), then my day gets bad fast. If they have PC (or think they do), they don't need my consent and they'll search whether I consent or not. Arguing about whether they really have PC or not or if something is actually illegal or not is for an attorney and a judge to discuss, not me and an officer on the side of the road.

 

That's not to say that I'm going to be a disrespectful ass-clown to an officer. I'm not going to make their job hard, but I'm not going to make their job easy at my expense. If I get stopped, I roll down my windows, turn on my interior lights, shut off the car, and place both hands on the wheel. I'll present my DL and HCP and inform the officer if I'm armed or not and if so, how and where I'm armed. I will respectfully decline any requests to search my vehicle. That's cooperating. Voluntarily participating in a phishing expedition isn't cooperating, it's stupidity.

 

 

 

*I mentor a kid through Big Brothers Big Sisters of Middle Tennessee (shameless plug for http://www.mentorakid.org). It's conceivable that one of those left-handed cigarettes might find its way into that teenaged boy's pocket (you know, to hold it for a friend), then find its way out of his pocket and roll under my seat.

.

 

I'd like this more than once if I could