Always carry with one in the pipe.

[Omega]

i have had 2 state troopers read me the riot act over cocked and locked and one in the pipe. both made me take the round out of the pipe. they had this old man by the short hairs so i did as they said when they let me go i reloaded and went on my merry way

I have had one ask, I just responded "wouldn't do any good otherwise". He just nodded in agreement and let me go about my business. I think most expect them to be locked and cocked. Edited November 27, 2014 by Omega

[bersaguy]

The only reason I carry one in the pipe is that I can't carry two in the pipe.

you can with a Joe Biden Double barrel.................jmho

[Joe357]

Since I am carrying my Ruger sp101 revolver, I have 5 in the pipe ;)

[bersaguy]

I went out of my way one day only because I seem to have a lot of time these days and if I found an officer parked someplace I would make it a point to ask them a few questions but first asking if they minded answering them. I had three questions I asked each officers. 4 local Gallatin City police officers, 3 Sumner County Sheriffs Deputies and 2 Troopers. First question was how he/she felt about armed legal carry citizens and I told them I was one. the response was very similar with all the city officers. It was pretty much of  " As long as you follow the laws and spend the time necessary to know your weapons capabilities they did not have an issue with them but they also did prefer concealed carry over open carry.

 

 

 

I thought that was a little odd so I added a question as the Why they Preferred CC above OC and they said they don't really want to know just how many people are armed because they already know it's a lot. My 2nd question was during a routine traffic stop when a Legal carry person is stopped do you prefer the driver want you to provide DL and CP? They said pretty much said your license will inform them if you have a HCP but they want DL and POI (proof of Insurance) mostly. Now when it came to County Deputy's They were all pretty much the same.

 

 

All of them said they had respect for people that went through the process of obtaining the HCP reason being that County Deputy's are stretched out and they cannot be every place in a minute of two and that could mean the difference between life and death and they are glad that more and more people have a chance of defending themselves until we can get there. Now the Troopers all had a little attitude but I guess that comes with the title "Trooper"  They are not all that great of fans on the issue of HCP's but none of them would admit to anything negative about them. I did ask them if they preferred getting the CP and DL to alert them to the fact I am armed. The reply was before we ever approach your vehicle they are aware of the fact the vehicle is registered to an HCP person.

 

 

The whole issue with them comes into play when they have to approach the vehicle knowing  there may be an armed person in the vehicle and that is why they will stand back just a little behind the window in most cases and ask for license, Registration and POI. If the DL matches the owner they know a firearm is a possibility. At that point they may ask you to step out of the vehicle and take you to a safe spot to discuss why you were stopped and whether you will be ticketed or not and they watch your body actions. They can tell by your reaction if it could escalate. I have never had any of them ask me if I was locked and loaded at the time. All in all I learned a little about how some of them think anyway..............jmho

Edited November 27, 2014 by bersaguy

[peejman]

A gun without a round in the chamber is nothing more than an expensive hammer.

[broox]

I carry empty chamber, home defense gun same.
I have all kinds of reasons that I have thought about alot.
I am probably not going to change anybody's mind.
That's ok

[Steelharp]

I carry empty chamber, home defense gun same.
I have all kinds of reasons that I have thought about alot.
I am probably not going to change anybody's mind.
That's ok

Try not to be overweight to make it easier on the guys that will have to carry you when YOUR "chamber" is empty. ;)

[Omega]

I carry empty chamber, home defense gun same.
I have all kinds of reasons that I have thought about alot.
I am probably not going to change anybody's mind.
That's ok

For most people, it will make no difference since they may never get into a situation where they need to draw their guns. But if you carry that way you need to get some snap caps and practice drawing and racking in a smooth motion. It can be done quite fast but it needs to be muscle memory.

[jughead]

Did you have a HCP? If so, they can't say anything about it. I always have my pistols chambered and at the ready.

had hcp.  this was 2 different stops they got so excited about the weapon that neither asked for license, permit. or insurance. after the last one told me he wouldnt cite me we had a long and rather "warm"  talk about what i could and couldnt do. dug up paper work and called him he never returned my call. they were both nice and professional though

[Alleycat72]

Try not to be overweight to make it easier on the guys that will have to carry you when YOUR "chamber" is empty. ;)

I adopted three kids that were siblings. There were some bad habits already built in that I knew we were going to have to work on. Guns were a big part of that. I had always had a handgun loaded on the nightstand next to me and a loaded SBR in the corner. A gun was loaded on my side when I left the house and still is. It was never a problem with my oldest. However, It was going to be a problem with two of my adopted children (one is blind) until their habits could be modified. I thought about leaving the gun in the same place without one in the camber, but ended up moving it to a location they can't get to. This puts both guns out of arms reach, but my kids are alive. It is essentially the same as having an empty chamber in the house. The point is that the guy you are referring to may have a valid reason for his decision that is none of your business.

[Steelharp]

I'm sure he does. As he said, he's not going to change any minds; nor are we going to change his. To each their own. Your getting pissy about my sense of humor is uncalled for. Neither are my decisions any of your business. If we cannot discuss differences in opinion without getting defensive...

 

I raised 7 kids, had loaded firearms, and taught them all well. However, none of them had the handicap you had to deal with. In your situation, I would have most likely chosen the same as you.

[Alleycat72]

Not pissy at all. I've told people that my wife has 4 children by 3 different men. Of course the assumption is that my wife is a floozy not that we adopted. She gets pissy. LOL it's damn funny though.

[Clod Stomper]

I just now watched the video.  That goes way beyond carrying chambered.  The victim already had a weapon in his hand and dropped it to try to pull out an unchambered handgun.  He may not have made it anyway, but he would have had a better chance if he'd smashed the murderer's head as soon as he grabbed his shirt.  And then taken out a chambered handgun to engage the accomplice, assuming he knew who he was.

 

Seems like a training issue.

[Alleycat72]

Guy definitely started off with victim mentality.

[crashgordan]

Sad but instructive video

[gregintenn]

 

When you need your gun rack it twice and its ready to fire. Nothing is faster! Nothing is easier.

I believe pulling the damned trigger is considerably faster....and easier! :shake: :shrug:

[mikegideon]

I believe pulling the damned trigger is considerably faster....and easier! :shake: :shrug:

 

Nothing worse than having somebody beat the crap out of you with your own gun.

[m16ty]

I've been stopped several times with a gun in plain sight and nobody has ever said anything about it. All of the times I inform the officer that I had a loaded firearm and they all say "I know". As has already been said, they usually know they are dealing with a HCP holder before they ever approach the vehicle, and are trained to look for firearms so if it's in plain sight they will notice it right away.

 

I have never been asked to show my HCP. If they don't find out when they run the tags they will when they run the DL.

[hipower]

I don't know how many times I've read and re-read this thread. It still doesn't make sense to me. 

 

As has been said, if you have a reason and choose to not have your weapon loaded, then it's your choice. And the consequences are also your choice by making the decision to have a less than fully prepared weapon.

 

A not ready for use weapon is a decoration, a stored keepsake, an unpaid insurance policy.

 

And I sincerely and wholeheartedly pray any of you who choose this path never have a need to find how fast you can chamber a round, load a cyclinder or run for the closet. 

 

As for me... well I guess you can figure that out.

Edited January 19, 2015 by hipower

[john455]

I have seen these or something like them at Kellers Guns before they went out of business, the guy tried to convince me that I needed to put two blanks in my gun so I could scare a threat and give them the chance to flee before I used deadly force :down:  :down:  :down:  SERIOUSLY, after l laughed in his face I told him if the time comes when I have to pull my weapon to defend myself I don't want to scare the threat I want to stop it permanently.

[bersaguy]

This thread has been around a couple months now and I still have a hot tube in all my guns scattered through out my house out of sight and they will remain hot just like the one I carry every day............... :up: :up:

[Grunt67]

Bottom line is, the one in the pipe is the only one that counts. Everything else is backup.

[jbrownch]

zgunbear said...Without a round in the chamber a handgun is just a paperweight.

 

or a composite, metal and polymer, hammer.

 

and as someone else said... you can't call timeout in a gunfight.

[JRWnTN]

I have seen these or something like them at Kellers Guns before they went out of business, the guy tried to convince me that I needed to put two blanks in my gun so I could scare a threat and give them the chance to flee before I used deadly force :down:  :down:  :down:  SERIOUSLY, after l laughed in his face I told him if the time comes when I have to pull my weapon to defend myself I don't want to scare the threat I want to stop it permanently.

That guy somehow was blessed with the ability to predict the situation where he might have to draw a gun.  A nicer way of saying he doesn't know how much he doesn't know. 

 

I once heard a handgun permit instructor say the first two rounds in his pistol were FMJ, then JHPs.  He wanted to give an attacker a chance to stop before using "serious" ammo.  As if you can shoot someone 'a little bit'.

 

Ah, the wisdom of firearm professionals....

[Cruel Hand Luke]

This whole "empty chamber carry" thing usually done by someone who is more afraid of the gun they carry than they are of the bad guys. And that is to some degree the fault of all the "you are more likely to be killed by a gun if you have one in the home " crowd. The average person (especially those in urban areas) knows little about guns other than what they see and hear on TV.  So people who know LITTLE about guns and even LESS about how fast REAL street crime happens decide they want to get a HCP but they are so afraid that the gun might "go off" they carry with an empty chamber.

 

My question is do they only load 5 rounds in their six shot double action  revolver so they have to pull the trigger TWICE to get it to go off? It is NOT logical. Ask any of the empty chamber carriers WHY they do it and the answer is EMOTIONAL....NOT logical. I've been working a full time job in the shooting industry for over 15 years and been teaching HCP classes the same amount of time and working as a travelling instructor, attending and presenting at some of the biggest conferences in the country for the last 8 years....and in ALL that time and travel I have yet to meet a SINGLE SERIOUS GUN CARRIER who carries with an empty chamber. And there is a reason for that. The people who KNOW how fast things can go from "hey man, do you have a cigarette" to "give up yo' wallet Mother F-er" know that empty chamber carry is stupid practice that can get you killed.

 

Now for those of you who say "well that is how we carried them in the army back in the day " ....maybe so...but that doesn't in ANY way mean that was the best practice...it just means the army doctrine for carrying a 1911 was "officially" to carry with an empty chamber for safety. I then ask those guys how much pistol training did you get AFTER you did BASIC? Any ? No? Unless you were in a VERY specialized unit, or were an MP you didn'ty carry loaded pistols in any kind of capacity on a regular basis....so people take that to mean that "if the army did it that way it was right". No...if the army did it, it was for a reason and that reason is RARELY because it is the best practice for FIGHTING. It is simply an effort  to keep UNTRAINED personnel from shooting themselves and others accidentally because they cannot grasp the concept of not using the trigger as a place to rest their finger .  Once those same people deployed to a combat zone the general practice was to say "to hell with the regulations" and carry it loaded and the safety on when outside the wire.....why? Because racking the slide took too long to bring the weapon into a usable condition.

 

In my "day job" I sell holsters and ammo and all manner of other accessories. I had an old guy (clearly in his 60s or 70s) call about a "defective" Galco Miami Classic shoulder holster for his "old military .45". He said it would not "fit". He said the thumb snap would not snap. I finally figured out WHY and asked him ...Sir, are you trying to holster that pistol with the hammer down or with it cocked? He said "What kind of idiot carries it cocked?" I asked if he had a round in the chamber and he again asked what kind of idiot carries that with a "bullet" in the chamber.....He informed me that he was a korean war vet and that "no one" carries a round in the chamber. I told him that Glaco designs their 1911 holsters to be carried with the hammer cocked, round chambered and safety on. THAT is why his gun would not fit.If the hammer was down the thumbsnap was not long enough to wrap around the hammer.... If he simply cocked the hammer it would fit..... He was dumbfounded because apparently since that is how the army did it (empty chamber) in 1950 that was the pinnacle of small arms TTPs....

 

Another pet peeve is the folks who simply parrot what other uninformed folks have told them about the Israelis carrying with an empty chamber and that they have some of the best counter terror folks in the world so if they do it then it must be OK.....well their CT units carry with loaded chambers...it is the " 2 year conscripts " that carry empty chamber and that started largely because in 1948 when Isreal became a country of their own for the first time since the late Old Testament times they had a hodge podge of foreign guns all with different features and different safety mechanisms. How to train people to use all this differnt stuff? Have them leave the safeties OFF and leave the chamber unloaded....that will work for EVERY TYPE of pistol no matter who made it or where and it is easier to have people do that than to invest the time into training them in good gunhandling practices......

 

So for all those carrying empty chamber....ask yourself this question.....how do guns go off? The trigger has to be pulled. So if we habituate ourselves to keeping our finger off the trigger until the muzzle is pointed at the target and we don't carelessly handle the pistol and when we are not handling it we have it in a holster that covers the trigger guard then it is nigh unto impossible for it to go off accidentally......AND it will work RIGHT NOW in an emergency situation when you pull it out without having to take the time to involve the other hand to make it functional. Carry how you want....but empty chamber carry is like emptying your car gas tank when you get where you are going so that the car doesn't catch on fire.....a ridiculous practice born of fear and emotion not education and logic.

Edited February 1, 2015 by Cruel Hand Luke