A 9mm ain't sh!t

[TMF]

I know a guy who was hit directly with an RPG and survived. Apparently all RPGs are ineffective and useless due to my anecdotal experience.


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[KKing]

I really hate to say I "hate" anyone. But I strongly dislike people like this guy. He's downright blatantly wrong, yet he passes this knowledge (or lack thereof) willingly down to his wife and kids. Atta boy, porkchop.

[raildog]

What a dummy 9mm .40 .45 or what ever will do the same thing stop a threat i carry a 9mm did so for a living for 10 years got use to it and can take the wings off a nat at 30 feet or less and i own from .22lr all the way to .50 to each ther own but why do so many people have to be close minded

[E4 No More]

I work in a pawn shop and yes you hear this all the time. What I think is funny is a have a 25 in my pocket that I know will go bang every time and will keep them all in the head at 20' so yah you keep your 45 and I will have a 25 in my pocket and a 9 on hip at all time and feel safe around anyone.

Have you tested a 25 on a skull?

[Pdheald]

No I have not. But I know I can hit eye ball size target under stress. So that is my aim with that gun. But if it comes out then the crap has already hit the fan and I am out of other options. But my point is I can shoot it well and spend the time to keep up on it. So yes it is a little hole but in the right spots even a little hole will mess up your day. And a 25 is reliable where in 22 I find duds all the time. So it goes bang and where I want it at good range so I don't feel under-gunned if that is all I can have. But I also like to have my beretta 92 on me as well.

[E4 No More]

No I have not. But I know I can hit eye ball size target under stress. So that is my aim with that gun. But if it comes out then the crap has already hit the fan and I am out of other options. But my point is I can shoot it well and spend the time to keep up on it. So yes it is a little hole but in the right spots even a little hole will mess up your day. And a 25 is reliable where in 22 I find duds all the time. So it goes bang and where I want it at good range so I don't feel under-gunned if that is all I can have. But I also like to have my beretta 92 on me as well.

I ask because many years ago I shot an old county street sign from about 10 feet away. The .25 just made a dent whereas a .22 went through it, so I doubt it would penetrate a skull. True that the bones behind the eye are very thin, but I wouldn't want to bet my life on hitting a target like that under stress...but that's just me.

[mikegideon]

I ask because many years ago I shot an old county street sign from about 10 feet away. The .25 just made a dent whereas a .22 went through it, so I doubt it would penetrate a skull. True that the bones behind the eye are very thin, but I wouldn't want to bet my life on hitting a target like that under stress...but that's just me.

 

If your self defense plan relies on head shots, It ain't a very good plan. if it relies on eyeball shots, I hope you remember me in your will.

[E4 No More]

If your self defense plan relies on head shots, It ain't a very good plan. if it relies on eyeball shots, I hope you remember me in your will.

True. I prefer the "shoot the F'er in the chest, groin, head" plan. :)

[mikegideon]

True. I prefer the "shoot the F'er in the chest, groin, head" plan. :)

 

I prefer to shoot them anywhere with a 45, so their head will explode  :rofl:

[Cruel Hand Luke]

I prefer to avoid having to shoot people.....it gets rather expensive.... ;)

[mikegideon]

I prefer to avoid having to shoot people.....it gets rather expensive.... ;)

 

No shit!

 

[Glock30]

If your self defense plan relies on head shots, It ain't a very good plan. if it relies on eyeball shots, I hope you remember me in your will.

 

That is sig line material

[A.J. Holst]

Hey, James Bond made a living on eyeball shots with his .25 Beretta.

 

Only way I figure he could have survived to graduate to the big bore .32acp

 

and he still would have had to maintain eyeball shots...

 

Practice, practice, practice

[DaveTN]

You have basically two groups:
Group 1: Those that have witnessed or experienced firsthand what various calibers do, and applied that knowledge to their application.

Group 2: Those that base their choice on what they read on the internet or what their Daddy told them.

Let’s face it; there are a bunch of calibers for a range of different applications. If its people you care about you can probably have intelligent conversations with them when they want to know which calibers to choose (if you think you are qualified to have that conversation). If it’s someone that’s going to get all butt hurt and act like you called their kids ugly; there is no point.

[mikegideon]

You have basically two groups:
Group 1: Those that have witnessed or experienced firsthand what various calibers do, and applied that knowledge to their application.

Group 2: Those that base their choice on what they read on the internet or what their Daddy told them.

Let’s face it; there are a bunch of calibers for a range of different applications. If its people you care about you can probably have intelligent conversations with them when they want to know which calibers to choose (if you think you are qualified to have that conversation). If it’s someone that’s going to get all butt hurt and act like you called their kids ugly; there is no point.

 

I never get butt hurt about calibers. I own all the common ones. Fact is, the terminal performance of today's bullets closes the gap quite a bit. Not sure dad will be much help. If we were limited to ball ammo, get the 45. First hand experience? You mean like Marshall and Sanow? That's what I call statistics gone wrong.

[Randall53]

No I have not. But I know I can hit eye ball size target under stress. So that is my aim with that gun. But if it comes out then the crap has already hit the fan and I am out of other options. But my point is I can shoot it well and spend the time to keep up on it. So yes it is a little hole but in the right spots even a little hole will mess up your day. And a 25 is reliable where in 22 I find duds all the time. So it goes bang and where I want it at good range so I don't feel under-gunned if that is all I can have. But I also like to have my beretta 92 on me as well.

 

Hmm....Banking on an eye shot while under stress. Now that's a new one on me! I'll stick with my G30.

[DaveTN]

First hand experience? You mean like Marshall and Sanow? That's what I call statistics gone wrong.

No, reading it is not first hand. I’m talking about having been in a shooting, being a first responder to shootings, or even setting up your own experiments on your own; phone books, watermelons, ballistic gel, whatever. I was talking with a young man that was telling me 9mm’s of today are as powerful as a .357Mag. When I asked him what kind of .357 mag weapon he got his experience with he said he has never fired a .357Mag. When you hear stupid statements like that it usually doesn’t take much conversation to let them confirm they are stupid. His opinion means nothing.

[DaveTN]

Hmm....Banking on an eye shot while under stress. Now that's a new one on me! I'll stick with my G30.

Exactly. I know for a fact that my shot placement in a real word shooting is not what it is at the range. I also am pretty sure that if I had taken the time to get a sight picture I would be dead.

But you can’t argue with the “shot placement” crowd. What they are saying is valid. Their ability to do it is what is in question.

[mikegideon]

Hmm....Banking on an eye shot while under stress. Now that's a new one on me! I'll stick with my G30.

 

There you go whippin out the big stuff. I'm fond of my 30S, which is the daintier version :)

[mikegideon]

No, reading it is not first hand. I’m talking about having been in a shooting, being a first responder to shootings, or even setting up your own experiments on your own; phone books, watermelons, ballistic gel, whatever. I was talking with a young man that was telling me 9mm’s of today are as powerful as a .357Mag. When I asked him what kind of .357 mag weapon he got his experience with he said he has never fired a .357Mag. When you hear stupid statements like that it usually doesn’t take much conversation to let them confirm they are stupid. His opinion means nothing.

 

.357 mag was the reason I bought my first hearing protection :) Still one helluva caliber. It's why the 357 sig has my attention. I'll wind up popping for a real Glock barrel for my 23  before it's all said and done.

[daddyo]

You have basically two groups:
Group 1: Those that have witnessed or experienced firsthand what various calibers do, and applied that knowledge to their application.

Group 2: Those that base their choice on what they read on the internet or what their Daddy told them.

Let’s face it; there are a bunch of calibers for a range of different applications. If its people you care about you can probably have intelligent conversations with them when they want to know which calibers to choose (if you think you are qualified to have that conversation). If it’s someone that’s going to get all butt hurt and act like you called their kids ugly; there is no point.

 

You mean the internet and Daddy are the only two sources?

[E4 No More]

.357 mag was the reason I bought my first hearing protection :) Still one helluva caliber. It's why the 357 sig has my attention. I'll wind up popping for a real Glock barrel for my 23  before it's all said and done.

In my younger days I threw out some major fireballs from a 4" .357 Magnum. I've entertained the idea of the 357 Sig, but didn't follow through.

[mikegideon]

In my younger days I threw out some major fireballs from a 4" .357 Magnum. I've entertained the idea of the 357 Sig, but didn't follow through.

 

I have a Glock 23, so it's simply a barrel change. The ammo is expensive, so I want to make sure I have the reloading covered before I pop. I shoot very little 40.

Edited December 2, 2014 by mikegideon

[Jamie Jackson]

Exactly. I know for a fact that my shot placement in a real word shooting is not what it is at the range. I also am pretty sure that if I had taken the time to get a sight picture I would be dead.

But you can’t argue with the “shot placement” crowd. What they are saying is valid. [b]Their ability to do it is what is in question.[/b]

 

 

And there's the rub. I carry a 9mm and feel confident that it will do it's job, [b]if[/b] I'll just do mine.

 

I think there is wisdom to the old adage "carry the largest caliber you can handle"...but truly mastering a Magnum caliber is no easy feat. Shot to shot time can be pretty slow as compared to a non-magnum caliber. And since predators do seem to hunt in packs, that shot to shot accurate placement is critical.

 

I've treated patients shot with .357's, heck, nearly every handgun cartridge except the .357 Sig. It was always placement into an appropriate vital target (with adequate penetration) that ruled the day. But a human's reaction to be shot is extremely variable and based on many, many factors.

 

My personal preference is a handgun I can shoot accurately, rapidly, and has a lot of rounds...more rounds = better survival chance imho.

 

As has been mentioned, shooting on a square range at 2 dimensional targets with no one shooting back at you is one thing...2 way range with full on "flight or fight" response? Not gonna be so easy...

 

:2cents:

[mikegideon]

 

 

And there's the rub. I carry a 9mm and feel confident that it will do it's job, if I'll just do mine.

 

I think there is wisdom to the old adage "carry the largest caliber you can handle"...but truly mastering a Magnum caliber is no easy feat. Shot to shot time can be pretty slow as compared to a non-magnum caliber. And since predators do seem to hunt in packs, that shot to shot accurate placement is critical.

 

I've treated patients shot with .357's, heck, nearly every handgun cartridge except the .357 Sig. It was always placement into an appropriate vital target (with adequate penetration) that ruled the day. But a human's reaction to be shot is extremely variable and based on many, many factors.

 

My personal preference is a handgun I can shoot accurately, rapidly, and has a lot of rounds...more rounds = better survival chance imho.

 

As has been mentioned, shooting on a square range at 2 dimensional targets with no one shooting back at you is one thing...2 way range with full on "flight or fight" response? Not gonna be so easy...

 

:2cents:

 

Good stuff in this post. I'll be one of the first ones to call 9mm a sissy gun on here, but only because it's like playing with a laser pen in a room full of cats :). Fact is, I have owned a high cap 9 since the 70's, and for years it was my only caliber. I have gravitated toward my 45's, but mainly just because I can. I have 1000 rounds of 9mm showing up today, and am going to do some serious comparison between my G19 and my G30S. The 45 is a handful, and does hold a lot fewer rounds. Anyway, that's where I am with things. In the nearly 40 years I have been messing with handguns, I have had to discharge 1 round. That was to turn an angry dog around.