Switching from Mini-14 to AR-15

[mikegideon]

The Shooter's Depot of North Georgia; don't know if the sister store in Chattanooga has the same things.

 

After watching videos on building lowers and reading the guide on AR15.com, I think that I may do that.  Resell value is less important to me than the learning experience at this point.  I like doing things myself, and the lower seems easier than some things that I have done.  Even if I just buy an upper, I think I want the sense of satisfaction that goes along with building.  I'm thinking of getting the Anderson lower locally and everything else from PSA.  Back-up plan would be blemished lower from PSA.

 

I should add that the thought of buying the majority of a gun through the mail makes me smile as I think of the potential liberal tears that will be shed.  

 

Also, I have already made a trade for all my Mini mags for GI mags.

 

Lowers are easy, and require very few tools. You need a decent punch set and a wrench to tighten your castle nut. Roll pin starter punches and roll pin punches are REAL helpful. Be sure to stake your castle nut. You can use an impact style center punch for that.

 

Upper assembly requires a bigger investment. If you just build your lower and snap on an assembled upper, it's a piece of cake.

[mikegideon]

I would ONLY use the forward assist if I knew absolutely what was wrong.  

 

Here's the deal with that. If you ease the bolt down while charging the gun, it most likely won't have enough spring left to cam the bolt around and lock, especially with a round in the chamber. That's when I have used the assist. I didn't slam it. Just used it to push it into battery. If you have cases sticking, you need to clean your gun and/or fix your ammo problem.

 

Of course, if you can afford to make lots of noise, you can just slingshot that sucker and it will drop right in.

Edited November 24, 2014 by mikegideon

[dawgdoc]

What is the difference between a starter punch and the roll pin punch? When I was searching on Amazon, I kept finding punch sets, but nothing that was distinguished as a starter.

[mikegideon]

What is the difference between a starter punch and the roll pin punch? When I was searching on Amazon, I kept finding punch sets, but nothing that was distinguished as a starter.

 

A starter actually has a hole in the end, and the roll pin drops into it. One of the best things I ever bought. I have these...

 

http://www.amazon.com/Ar15-Roll-Pin-Starter-Punch/dp/B0083UUOOG

[mikegideon]

And, regular roll pin punches...

 

http://www.amazon.com/Grip-Roll-Pin-Punch-Set/dp/B003L7HOMG

 

 

And plain ole punches. I use these the most on rifles, shotguns, and pistols...

 

http://www.amazon.com/Wheeler-Hammer-Punch-Plastic-Case/dp/B004SY07HU

Edited November 24, 2014 by mikegideon

[deafdogdief]

I would ONLY use the forward assist if I knew absolutely what was wrong. You may be jamming the bullet into the lands, or a case neck into the throat. Bad news. I have used it exactly once. And I knew that I had failed to push the shoulder back far enough on some cases that I was fire-forming.

If you're stepping out of the truck and heading into the woods and you don't want the bolt carrier slamming home loudly is another reason to use the forward assist. But again, you know what is going on.

And as a matter of fact, they didn't put it on originally. It was an A1 modification for the jungle of Vietnam because of dirty powder and no cleaning kits. At least that's the reason I've read. I wasn't there.

I'm aware of the addition because the powder being used was dirty and soldiers weren't cleaning the guns properly. It was a necessary improvement. I agreement to be sparing with its use.
For my own academic reasons, how do you use the assist ease the bolt home instead of slamming the bolt home?

[Oh Shoot]

....
For my own academic reasons, how do you use the assist ease the bolt home instead of slamming the bolt home?

 

If you're trying to be quiet, load road by riding bolt forward with charging handle until it stops. Lock charging handle in by holding catch open then letting go once in lock position. Push forward assist until bolt doesn't move any more forward to make sure it's locked it.

 

- OS

Edited November 24, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[dawgdoc]

It sounds like the starter punch is like a helping hand.  Are they required or just helpful?  I ask because of the obvious extra expense.  I think I can interpret on the AR15.com guide which steps where a starter punch is most useful, and the possible alternatives (such as using a needle nose pliers to hold the pin).  

[Clod Stomper]

Like Mike Gideon said above, if you ease the bolt closed on a round, it may not go fully into battery.  That's when to use the forward assist to push the bolt into battery and seat the round.  Much more quiet than letting it slam home.  That sound can carry a long way on a foggy fall morning.

 

 

 

...D'oh.  Beat again by OS.  

[mikegideon]

It sounds like the starter punch is like a helping hand.  Are they required or just helpful?  I ask because of the obvious extra expense.  I think I can interpret on the AR15.com guide which steps where a starter punch is most useful, and the possible alternatives (such as using a needle nose pliers to hold the pin).  

 

Not required, but very helpful. A roll pin requires a pretty good smack to get it started. If it's not lined up well enough, it won't go. I built a bunch before I ever bought a set. Actually bought them to assemble a rear sight on an A2. Once I used them, I wished i had bought them on the first rifle. But, it's probably not worth it. We all know that most people stop with one AR  :rofl: . I know I did... for a couple of months :)

[gregintenn]

It sounds like the starter punch is like a helping hand.  Are they required or just helpful?  I ask because of the obvious extra expense.  I think I can interpret on the AR15.com guide which steps where a starter punch is most useful, and the possible alternatives (such as using a needle nose pliers to hold the pin).  

If you build an AR, BUY THEM! :up:

 

This helpful hint brought to you by the resident TGO tightazz, gregintenn. :cool:

[raildog]

Punches are a nice thing to have in the tool box. Forward assist is not a must but I would not put a rifle together or buy one with out it. Comes in handy whenever you want to be stelthy or are in rapid fire and the bolt fails to go into battery which will happen I promise ask anyone who has trusted ther life to one

[dawgdoc]

What about the upper assemblies without bolt carrier groups or charging handles?  If I bought one of those, is it simple to just buy the BCG and charging handle, or is there some difficulty in getting those parts in?  As in, not for the inexperienced.

 

Also, PSA has a lot of stuff temporarily out of stock.  Is that normal, or is it preparation for Black Friday?  For those of you who have bought from their Black Friday sales, did you stalk the website daily, start on Thanksgiving, or wait until Friday?

Edited November 24, 2014 by dawgdoc

[Garufa]

What about the upper assemblies without bolt carrier groups or charging handles?  If I bought one of those, is it simple to just buy the BCG and charging handle, Yes or is there some difficulty in getting those parts in? No As in, not for the inexperienced.

 

Also, PSA has a lot of stuff temporarily out of stock.  Is that normal, Yes or is it preparation for Black Friday?  For those of you who have bought from their Black Friday sales, did you stalk the website daily, start on Thanksgiving, or wait until Friday? Daily

[dawgdoc]

Thanks for all the responses from everyone; just in the last few days I already feel more knowledgeable about ARs.

[Oh Shoot]

Thanks for all the responses from everyone; just in the last few days I already feel more knowledgeable about ARs.

 

To stick up for the low end side of piecing together lowers:

 

I've done five with no vice and nothing more than small hammer and needlenose pliers to start the two roll pins on a standard lower, and plain ole flat punch to finish them off. Last one was a billet lower no roll pins at all. :)

 

Only special tool really needed is castle nut wrench, a basic one is 5 clams (if you didn't care how castle nut looked after, you could use a pipe wrench!)  And no, I don't stake them, though some will swear that'll get me killed in my first extended firefight. ;)

 

Biggest hint: anything with pin, spring/detente involved, work with all parts and hands inside a clear plastic bag!

 

I used this feller's walkthough the first time or two (sans the vice, but plus bag):

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA_Vkb2UB1w

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq4KfUaVp8M

 

- OS

Edited November 24, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[dawgdoc]

I think I'm going to go for it.  I already have some punches ordered, as well as some other things.  I have been piecing together things on PSA--right now it is a 16 inch mid-length upper.  I just like how the mid-length looks versus a carbine length, although I could live with either.

 

Oh, Shoot--I remember you mentioning the plastic bag trick before, and after watching the videos, I can see where that would be useful.  I have already been planning my work space (in the basement, where there are no floor registers). 

 

I want to order right now, but I know I should wait for two things--Thanksgiving sales and my check from Ruger.

[Oh Shoot]

....

Oh, Shoot--I remember you mentioning the plastic bag trick before, and after watching the videos, I can see where that would be useful.  I have already been planning my work space (in the basement, where there are no floor registers). 

 

The odds of launching something are fairly high, even after doing several. Since as Dolo says, they sometimes enter another dimension in mid air, covering grates and the like may not help. ;)

 

Though I can do it with paper clip now, note the razor knife trick with front pivot pin, works a treat.

 

- OS

Edited November 24, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[mikegideon]

  And no, I don't stake them, though some will swear that'll get me killed in my first extended firefight. ;)

 

 

 

Here's what will happen (ask me how I know)... ONCE (not if) it shoots loose, if the stock rotates enough counter-clockwise, the buffer retainer will turn loose and really jam things up. It happened to me when I was shooting a LOT of rounds one day. Anyway, I'm pretty sure it will only happen to you once. You know me... I would never laugh at you when you break your gun :)

[Oh Shoot]

Here's what will happen (ask me how I know)... ONCE (not if) it shoots loose, if the stock rotates enough counter-clockwise, the buffer retainer will turn loose and really jam things up. It happened to me when I was shooting a LOT of rounds one day. Anyway, I'm pretty sure it will only happen to you once. You know me... I would never laugh at you when you break your gun :)

 

My opinion is, it wasn't properly tightened!

 

Actually, maybe I'll go ahead and stake them all at some point. There was so much rearrangement of endplates/tubes there for a while I hated to do it.

 

- OS

[gregintenn]

What about the upper assemblies without bolt carrier groups or charging handles?  If I bought one of those, is it simple to just buy the BCG and charging handle, or is there some difficulty in getting those parts in?  As in, not for the inexperienced.

 

Also, PSA has a lot of stuff temporarily out of stock.  Is that normal, or is it preparation for Black Friday?  For those of you who have bought from their Black Friday sales, did you stalk the website daily, start on Thanksgiving, or wait until Friday?

They are drop in parts. No different than taking them out to clean the barrel and putting them back in.

 

I've been accustomed to working on Mauser rifles, revolvers, and 1911's, so I was astounded at how easy the AR is to tinker with. They're sort of like Legos.

Edited November 24, 2014 by gregintenn

[atlas3025]

And there is this. Tough to beat. A complete mil spec gun for under $475 when you factor in a lower. http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/psa-16-m4-cmv-rifle-kit.html

[dawgdoc]

Well, I've ordered my stuff; now I just need to buy a lower.  I kept fighting the tendency to go as cheap as possible.  I decided to use $700 as my comparison point (the two guns in the LGS), and I figured I could go with the premium barrel and MOE stock and still be ahead.  So far, so good.

 

I had thought I wanted a mid-length, but the one I originally wanted was already out of stock, and for less money I could get a blemished premium carbine-length upper (Black Friday deal).  

 

I hope I don't screw this up.

[Oh Shoot]

Well, I've ordered my stuff; now I just need to buy a lower.  I kept fighting the tendency to go as cheap as possible.  I decided to use $700 as my comparison point (the two guns in the LGS), and I figured I could go with the premium barrel and MOE stock and still be ahead.  So far, so good.

 

I had thought I wanted a mid-length, but the one I originally wanted was already out of stock, and for less money I could get a blemished premium carbine-length upper (Black Friday deal).  

 

I hope I don't screw this up.

 

Carbine will be a killng dem Zeds bout as long as a midlength will. ;)

 

- OS

[mikegideon]

Carbine will be a killng dem Zeds bout as long as a midlength will. ;)

 

- OS

 

Yep. Can't go wrong there.

Edited November 25, 2014 by mikegideon