New Twist in the SIG Brace Debate

[Johnny Rotten]

Gosh darn it, I just perfected my bumpfire/arm brace.

[Oh Shoot]

Man, there is a fire sale of braces on ARFCOM.

It is amazing at how many are for sale on ARFCOM.

 
Probably will significantly affect sales of AR and AK pistols period. Don't know how many folks I've seen post on forums that the brace was only reason they bought or built one.
 
- OS

Edited January 17, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[Lumber_Jack]

So aside from an ATF agent seeing you shooting the weapon, how can it be proven that you used the brace improperly?

[Smith]

I just got this in Email from the BATFE:

Soooooo, anyone looking at ditching their braces? Not for selling purposes, just curious in all honesty.

Why, I got my two to help me shoot the AR and PAP with one hand easier.

On a side not when will they apply this to the AFG? What about the Thorsdon? That is designed to use the check as a support. Does your face alert it's use?

[Dolomite_supafly]

The ONLY gun I have with a brace is my shorty AK that I carry with me EVERYWHERE and that will not change. I will still carry it and I will still have the Sig brace installed. And if I HAVE to shoulder it in a life or death situation then I will deal with the ramifications of that. I will not give up an advantage that might save my life.

[R_Bert]

So aside from an ATF agent seeing you shooting the weapon, how can it be proven that you used the brace improperly?

I'm figuring, probably same as admissible evidence in any other court case. And to really gum it up, shooting it is probably not necessary. (bonus points if pulled out of same place BATFE got all this crap from).

Edited January 17, 2015 by R_Bert

[mikegideon]

The ONLY gun I have with a brace is my shorty AK that I carry with me EVERYWHERE and that will not change. I will still carry it and I will still have the Sig brace installed. And if I HAVE to shoulder it in a life or death situation then I will deal with the ramifications of that. I will not give up an advantage that might save my life.

 

I'm guessing you will never go to prison. Now, if you shoot the gun from the nipple (as suggested earlier), that's a different story. That is called nippling, and is as illegal as it gets, especially with a Sig brace.

[Oh Shoot]

So aside from an ATF agent seeing you shooting the weapon, how can it be proven that you used the brace improperly?

 

I imagine lots of vids and still pix are disappearing from all over the web, eh?

 

Of course, just how is this new "mandate" supposed to be disseminated to all the folks who have purchased them? "Ignorance of the law is no excuse", but of course the law has not changed.

 

This is not even an official "ruling", and indeed the last one of those on ATF rulings page is from July 2013, but of course there have been any number of newer ones, including one already in 2015 (regarding 80% lowers).

 

What responsibility do the makers and retailers of the various braces have to communicate this to new buyers. Do they have any responsibility to try and communicate this to previous buyers?

 

Etc.

 

Maybe some activist will show up outside Max's office building in Martinsburg and shoulder his braced pistol for a while to see if he gets arrested to get this thing rolling. ;)

 

- OS

[Omega]

So when I shoulder my nail gun I am breaking the law?  This department is such bs, they should stick to distributing weapons to drug gangs and leave us law abiding citizens to our own devices. 

[Dolomite_supafly]

So when I shoulder my nail gun I am breaking the law?  This department is such bs, they should stick to distributing weapons to drug gangs and leave us law abiding citizens to our own devices. 

Depends, some nail guns are classified as AOWs if used as a weapon. Imagine that, you are in a life and death struggle and you use a nail gun to defend yourself then go to jail for employing an illegal AOW.

[Oh Shoot]

Btw, TGO David, can't find the thread, but just a nod to your post about some sort of blanket announcement from ATF regarding the brace -- turned out to be pretty much spot on.

 

- OS

[Ron Padilla]

we saw one example of the vulva stock, so it might come to pass ( no pun ) wher that stock grows (no pun) to be popular for crotch shots instead of shouldering the weapon, but your buddy wouldnt want to use it.  :)

[whitewolf001]

I found another use...

[hipower]

I found another use...

 

You Sir. Are Demented!!  I Love It!

[Wingshooter]

Wacky. So, if I attach it to my arm as designed and keep my arm straight, I'm fine; however, as soon as I bend my elbow I'm a criminal. Doesn't the BATF know that a forearm is just an extension of the shoulder :screwy:

Oh well, they're still legal, right? ... Just don't put it to my shoulder. Maybe it's a good time for me to buy one cheap

[R_Bert]

Wacky. So, if I attach it to my arm as designed and keep my arm straight, I'm fine; however, as soon as I bend my elbow I'm a criminal. Doesn't the BATF know that a forearm is just an extension of the shoulder :screwy:

Oh well, they're still legal, right? ... Just don't put it to my shoulder. Maybe it's a good time for me to buy one cheap

how low, will we go?  So how much is a forbidden chunk of plastic worth now?  I may have to pick one up.  (New, locally, is now $110)

[Wingshooter]

how low, will we go?  So how much is a forbidden chunk of plastic worth now?  I may have to pick one up.  (New, locally, is now $110)

They are getting low. Found $89 online without the buffer

[Oh Shoot]

They are getting low. Found $89 online without the buffer

 

Used ones are going quite cheap indeed on arfcom EE, many bundled with various buffer tube assemblies too.

 

- OS

Edited January 18, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[whitewolf001]

Just found this satire article released in response to the ruling... You WILL giggle.

 

http://tacticalshit.com/another-atf-ruling-pulling-trigger-repeatedly-now-illegal/
 

Today, just days before Shot Show 2015 the ATF has once again decided to implement game changing and sweeping rulings.  In response to thousands of requests at the ATF Technology Branch they have released this statement:

The ATF likes to change their mind. So today we have done it again and this time we mean it.  Many have asked whether pulling the trigger on a firearm more than once in sequential order is illegal. It in fact is. Using Merriam’s Dictionary we look at the word “Design”. By pulling the trigger more than once in sequential order with a split time of less than 2 seconds, you in fact have “re-designed” the weapon and it would be considered “Fully Automatic” or a “Machine Gun” by definition which would result in an obvious NFA Law Violation. The fact that your finger itself is a “mechanical” addition to the weapon confirms this.  You would also be guilty of Manufacturing since you added your finger to the trigger and of course Excise Tax Evasion the moment you hand this newly redesigned and re-manufactured firearm to your friend. This is obviously a game changer.  The bolt action market is going to explode.

[mikegideon]

Used ones are going quite cheap indeed on arfcom EE, many bundled with various buffer tube assemblies too.

 

- OS

 

Unless you choose the Johnson mounted version. A Fleshlight is 60+ bucks, and the ATF won't be able to ruin that market. :)

[Oh Shoot]

Unless you choose the Johnson mounted version. A Fleshlight is 60+ bucks, and the ATF won't be able to ruin that market. :)

 

I dunno. Sounds like shooting a pistol with more than one hand will soon be illegal, so you may go under Leavenworth using both hands and yer pecker too!

 

- OS

[ProfEngr]

Guess cops are exempt when using their non-trigger hand to steady their aim. What a load of bull.

[Smith]

Felonies?

[mikegideon]

I dunno. Sounds like shooting a pistol with more than one hand will soon be illegal, so you may go under Leavenworth using both hands and yer pecker too!

 

- OS

 

They won't outlaw two handed pecker yankin' with this administration. ALL their hired help would wind up in prison.

[Dolomite_supafly]

They won't outlaw two handed pecker yankin' with this administration. ALL their hired help would wind up in prison.

I don't think their hired help uses their hands, either one, much.