OAL

[deafdogdief]

Tapatalk doesn't have a search function that works on either of my mobile devices. Sorry if this is a repeat.
In several different calibers that I load I am having the same problem. My OAL seems to vary by several thousandths. All are Lee dies and I am wondering if I am doing something wrong because I have to go back and measure and seat, measure and seat,measure and seat until I am at proper length. Doing all a first round and dividing by lengths and resetting the die for each group. How much can I vary and not be concerned with it?

[Hozzie]

When you say they are off by several thousandths, how many are we talking?  I suspect there are a couple of things that could be going on.  One, Lee dies use that rubber o-ring under the nut when you tighten down the die.  Is it getting slightly loose some how. You may try adding a hornady locking ring to your die and trying that.

 

Second issue which I suspect could be more likely is a difference in the bullets themselves.  Are they seconds or anything like that?  Try setting the bullet depth using a comparitor set similar to this http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000PD5VLA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1.  It measures off of the ogive, therefore when you set your die, it is set based on where the die actually touches the bullet.  

 

Measuring OAL to the tip of the bullet isn't as accurate due to small variances in the bullets themselves.  Using this method, your OAL can actually be different, but the fit of each bullet in the chamber will be the same, therefore improving accuracy because it keeps the ogive the same distance from the rifling in the chamber when seated.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Hozzie

[runco]

Make sure there is no junk in your die. 

[Trekbike]

As Hozzie said, how much difference are you seeing?

Try an experiment. Measure several factory rounds out of the same box and you'll see variance there as well. If yours are about the same I wouldn't worry about it.

[deafdogdief]

When you say they are off by several thousandths, how many are we talking? I suspect there are a couple of things that could be going on. One, Lee dies use that rubber o-ring under the nut when you tighten down the die. Is it getting slightly loose some how. You may try adding a hornady locking ring to your die and trying that.

Second issue which I suspect could be more likely is a difference in the bullets themselves. Are they seconds or anything like that? Try setting the bullet depth using a comparitor set similar to this http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000PD5VLA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1. It measures off of the ogive, therefore when you set your die, it is set based on where the die actually touches the bullet.

Measuring OAL to the tip of the bullet isn't as accurate due to small variances in the bullets themselves. Using this method, your OAL can actually be different, but the fit of each bullet in the chamber will be the same, therefore improving accuracy because it keeps the ogive the same distance from the rifling in the chamber when seated.

O ring is not loose. I understand the concept of the gauge but not what components I need. Uncertainty breeding trepidation on my part. What is the complete package I am looking to get? The link only shows some of the components. Do I need the 2 foot long rod?

[deafdogdief]

Make sure there is no junk in your die.

I'm good on that. I just cleaned and lubed them with hornady one shot.

[deafdogdief]

As Hozzie said, how much difference are you seeing?

Try an experiment. Measure several factory rounds out of the same box and you'll see variance there as well. If yours are about the same I wouldn't worry about it.

I am seeing a spread average of .008". I haven't opened the factory rounds to check yet. I know I have seen a variance if factory ammo in the past of about .002".

[Wingshooter]

I had a cheap digital caliper once that seemed to give slightly inconsistent measurements. How is your measuring equipment?

[chances R]

don't worry about the small differences.  Some of it will vary depending on machine flex or how much pressure a case requires during resizing especially on progressives.  Unless you  are a true competitive bulls eye shooter, don't sweat the small stuff.

[Hozzie]

O ring is not loose. I understand the concept of the gauge but not what components I need. Uncertainty breeding trepidation on my part. What is the complete package I am looking to get? The link only shows some of the components. Do I need the 2 foot long rod?

 

Yeah, I would recommend you get the OAL length gauge as well.  I wasn't sure how you were determining the OAL or if you already had one.  If you don't have one, http://smile.amazon.com/Hornady-Overall-Length-Gauge-straight/dp/B000PD01SI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1416586380&sr=8-1&keywords=hornady+oal+gauge, then this is the easiest way to get what the OAL for any given rifle should be.  Just buy the caliber specific blank case that goes with it and you can determine what the max OAL is for any rifle.  

 

There are then different theories on how far to seat the bullets off of the lands.  I typically create some test rounds at -.020, -.040, and -.060 under whatever I measure.  Then I move on to testing different powder loads if I am looking for even more accuracy.

 

At the end of the day, .008 variance for general shooting is no issue whatsoever.  If you are wanting to get the most accuracy, then the above items will help.  

Edited November 21, 2014 by Hozzie

[expendable]

What caliber are you loading for and what bullet are you using ?

[gregintenn]

If the ammo feeds reliably and groups well, I'd not give it a second thought. I expect the variance is a bullet issue and not a die/press issue.

[deafdogdief]

What caliber are you loading for and what bullet are you using ?

.223/5.56 for an AR
30.06 for bolt action.
Along with this I am wondering how to tell if I am bumping the shoulders back too far. I know that's another can of worms and off topic.

[deafdogdief]

.223/5.56 for an AR
30.06 for bolt action.
Along with this I am wondering how to tell if I am bumping the shoulders back too far. I know that's another can of worms and off topic.

Sorry. Missed the second question. I actually am loading several. The rifle rounds as well as handgun. Berry's for 9,40,45. Hornady sp w/cannelure for 55g .223. 165 Nosler ballistic tips for 30-06.

[mikegideon]

The seating die doesn't "measure" to the tip of the bullet. It "measures" to the ogive. There is going to be variation in the OAL if you measure to the tip. The RIFLE doesn't care where the tip is either. Get a bullet comparator as others have suggested. 

 

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/231904/hornady-lock-n-load-bullet-comparator-basic-set-with-6-inserts

[Dolomite_supafly]

The bullet gets seated off the ogive of the bullet and OAL is measured from the tip. All, and I mean ALL, bullets vary between these two measurements. You would be surprised at how much the bearing surface will vary bullet to bullet, even in the same lot.

 

It is probably nothing to worry about. But if you are trying to load for the most accuracy there are a lot of steps you must take to ensure you are loading identical bullets.

[mikegideon]

Seating depth and the distance from the ogive to the lands are the two parameters at affect pressure, when it comes to bullet seating. A comparator will let you know if you have some inconsistency in your reloading setup. I doubt that you do.

[Jonnin]

is this by any chance a turret press?  My turrets move more than a few thousandths every time I put a load on them, you can *see* it raise up under pressure, moreso on sizing than seating.   Being mostly concerned with bulk production plinking ammo, it does not bother me a bit, but its worth a comment.

[Clod Stomper]

Even match bullets can vary from ogive to tip. I'm guessing that your seating depth is consistent. If they shoot fine, I wouldn't worry about it.

[Trekbike]

Along with this I am wondering how to tell if I am bumping the shoulders back too far. I know that's another can of worms and off topic.

 

You can use one of these.  It works well for me.  

 

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/479704/hornady-lock-n-load-headspace-gage-5-bushing-set-with-comparator?cm_vc=ProductFinding

[deafdogdief]

You can use one of these. It works well for me.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/479704/hornady-lock-n-load-headspace-gage-5-bushing-set-with-comparator?cm_vc=ProductFinding

So this is in addition to the comparator gauge from the way I understand it?

[deafdogdief]

is this by any chance a turret press? My turrets move more than a few thousandths every time I put a load on them, you can *see* it raise up under pressure, moreso on sizing than seating. Being mostly concerned with bulk production plinking ammo, it does not bother me a bit, but its worth a comment.

No, it's a Lee Challenger Single Stage.

[deafdogdief]

Looked at local store today. I'll be getting the comparator gauge. Not being meticulous from accuracy angle. Just want to be sure that I am operating within safe limits. Thank you all.

[Trekbike]

So this is in addition to the comparator gauge from the way I understand it?

Yes. It allows you to check how much you are bumping the case shoulder back so you able to use the minimum headspace you can get by with so you don't over work your brass. Edited November 22, 2014 by Trekbike

[deafdogdief]

Picked up my comparator gauge and headspace bushings as well. Pleasantly surprised by the results I already have. I know I can measure off comparable rounds in factory ammunition to get numbers or use the overall length gauge with the modified shell, but am wondering if there is a written standard for comparator numbers? Edited November 28, 2014 by deafdogdief