7.62x54R

[jeff43]

Have any of y'all ever pulled a bullet out of a surplus case and replaced it with a Sierra or Nosler bullet of the same weight to see if there is any accuracy difference?

[peejman]

I'm not a reloader, but I assumed the standard practice for reloading mosin ammo was to pull the bullet, dump the powder, and replace both with the items du jour.

[gregintenn]

Nope. Cheap rifle, cheap ammo.....I just shoot it as is.

[jeff43]

Thought I'd try the powder that was in it.

[gregintenn]

Let us know what you learn.

[jeff43]

Ok

[Reloader762]

Have any of y'all ever pulled a bullet out of a surplus case and replaced it with a Sierra or Nosler bullet of the same weight to see if there is any accuracy difference?

The pratice is know as Mexican Matched ammo you can read about it in this article on US National Match Ammunition http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/04/history-us-national-match-ammunition.html

 

As to your question back in the day when there was not much reloadable boxer primed brass or soft point ammo if any to be had but plenty of .311" SP bullet designed to be used in the 303 British I Mexican Matched quiet a few rds. of Bulgarian LB and HB brass case surplus ammo.

 

My process was to take 20 cartridges from the same lot and pull all the bullets and set the surplus bullets aside for future use in plinking loads for the Mosin or SKS rifles.  Next I would ramdomly weigh about 1/4 of the powder charges from the lot and record the charge weights using the high and low charge weights to get an average charge weight.

 

Cases had all the necks resize to accept the new bullets and were checked for OAL and all trimmed to the same length if possible,deburred and chamfered.  The bullets I used were the Speer 150 gr. HotCor and Sierra 150 gr. Pro Hunter both .311" dia.  The bore on my M44 is .312" groove to groove.

 

Since I was using a .311" dia, bullet instead of the .310.5" factory bullet and it weighed on average about 2.0 grs. heavier than the factory pulled bullets I reduced the powder charge by 2 full grs. on the test loads from the average charge weight  I came up with.  Bullet seating depth was set to load manual specifications for that bullet.  I loaded up a series of test loads in .5 gr. incriments till I reached the average charge weight.

 

I used to have some scans of the test targets but they are long gone but accuracy was greatly improved using the US commercial SP bullet.  I had no problems shooting groups under 3" with the irons at 100 yds. in the M44 vs. buckshot type patterns with the surplus loads.  The primer looked much better as well.

 

Still have a small stash of the Speer 150 gr. SP Mexican Matched ammo.

[url=http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/reloader762/media/M44MexicanMatch_zps0c0fe3de.jpg.html][/URL]

 

Before with surplus ammo.

[url=http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/reloader762/media/Ammo007_zps5f880438.jpg.html][/URL]

 

After with Mexican Matched ammo.

[url=http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/reloader762/media/Ammo008_zps5e0437c7.jpg.html][/URL]

 

Another article I ran across late this evening.

 

http://www.theboxotruth.com/educational-zone-177-mexican-match-ammunition/

Edited November 18, 2014 by Reloader762

[Ray Z]

The rifles that shoot 7.62 x 54R are of interesting design to say the least. I'd love to have a couple just for the history they have. But unless I want to spend an arm and a leg, the ammo is corrosive and berdan primed. So if I want to reload for it the only cases are brand new from just a couple of manufacturers and they want over a buck a piece for them.

[Reloader762]

Excellent example of the rifles are still available but getting harder to find especially Finnish rifles an the carbine version like my Russian M44 which I gave $75 for out the door.  Surplus ammo is still corrosive but new commercial steel case ammo is not,both are still berdan primed though.  I keep most of my steel or brass case corrosive berdan primed ammo stashed away for a rainy day but I shoot some on occasion and it's no big deal to clean after shooting.

 

Prvi Partizan and S & B make brass case boxer primer ammo,the knockoff brands are Wolf Gold and Winchester whcih are a few dollars more per box but it's the same brass with a different headstamp.

 

As to reloading I started reloading for my Mosins as soon as reloadable brass became available.  I purchase a couple hundred pieces of Prvi Partizan and Winchester brass for around $36 per hundred you can still get the Prvi at Graf & Sons for around $46 per hundred.  Recently my brother and myself were able to get a quanity of once fired Prvi and Winchester 54r brass for a commercial reloader we know as it was mixed in with his barrels of range brass he was buying for his business.  We probably got around 500 or more once fired cases each for 10 cents per case.

 

Although I have J bullets I prefer to shoot cast lead out of my Mosins as it much cheaper and there just as if not more accurate for plinking,target shooting and hunting purposes.

 

170 gr. cast lead loads.

[url=http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/reloader762/media/Baseball002_zps6c1da535.jpg.html][/URL]

 

My Mosin and the first five shot test group I shot with the above load at 50 yds.

[url=http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/reloader762/media/54r_zpsdec2f3bd.jpg.html][/URL]

Edited November 18, 2014 by Reloader762

[Caster]

Ya'll listen up!

 

This frickin' new guy here, Reloader762, he's doing it RIGHT.  

 

Welcome to the board and from one lead poisoned fool to another, GOOD JOB!

[LngRngShtr]

I have to get one of these some day, it is on the list.

 

Especially after yesterday when someone told me it is just as powerful and accurate as a .338 Lapua  but cheaper :cool:

 

Y'all been holding out on me, your secret is out .. :rofl:

 

I'll keep my '06s :stir:

 

Seriously though I kind of like the idea of old rimmed cartridges , it could keep my Enfield company  and my SKS won't be so lonely either

 

for those that reload the 54R I am guessing they don't stretch as badly as .303s ?  I neck size and download the old Brit to preserve my small stash of brass but still they seem to grow faster than my '06 brass due to the long taper and locking setup of the SMLE it seems.

Edited November 19, 2014 by LngRngShtr

[Trekbike]

 

Especially after yesterday when someone told me it is just as powerful and accurate as a .338 Lapua  but cheaper :cool:

 

 

The person that told you "it's just as powerful" has been smoking a crack pipe...The only truth to their statement is that it is cheaper.   

[Caster]

Hmm,

7,62x54R 180g bullet at about 2,700fps and 2,800ft lbs of energy.
.338 Lapua 300g bullet at about 2,800 for and over 5,000 ft lbs of energy.

Yeah! That's close [/sarcasm]

[gregintenn]

Hmm,

7,62x54R 180g bullet at about 2,700fps and 2,800ft lbs of energy.
.338 Lapua 300g bullet at about 2,800 for and over 5,000 ft lbs of energy.

Yeah! That's close [/sarcasm]

If you're comparing recoil and muzzle blast between an M44 and a benchrest rifle in 338 Lapua, it might be close. :D

[jaysouth]

The 7.62x54 Russian is gaining some foothold in single shot rifles.  Break open single shots work better with a rimmed cartridge.  A simple chamber reaming of a 30-30 or.308 Handi or Encore gives you a rifle with 06 ballistics but less stress on the gun than a rimless cartridge.  Just remember to reload with .308 bullets.

[Reloader762]

For those that reload the 54R I am guessing they don't stretch as badly as .303s ?

 

The ones I have loaded for have been pretty much just like reloading for any other rifle cartridge,chambers are fairly normal for the most part however rimmed case can have stretching issues as well although not as much as say most 303 British made rifles.

 

LngRngShtr,the problem with some military rifles chamber for rimmed cartridges as well as a few rimless chambered rifles besides oversized chambers is the headspace between the boltface and back of the cartridges or the head clearance due to rim thickness.  Military bolt guns like the 303 British weren't designed with the reloader in mind,they just wanted a rifle that functioned without issue under adverse battlefield conditions so they made the chambers oversized to accomidate that as well as the ammo of the day which changed several times over the course of the ammo history.

 

The oversized chamber issue which stretches the cartridge case in all directions can somewhat be overcome by neck sizing your brass only after the first firing and from that point on.  Here is the part that most reloaders new to 303 British don't understand or know about.

 

The 303 rifles have a bolt with a removable bolt head,the bolt head is numbered,I believe it goes from  #1 to #5 each numbered bolt head being slightly longer.  The armorer used the different numbered heads to set the headspace between the bolt face and the back of the cartridge case. 

 

Original 303 British surplus brass has a fairly specific rim thickness the only brass that comes fairly close to that is Lapua or Prvi Partizan,Remington,Winchester and some of the other US commercial case have thinner rims,which give more head clearance and allow for more case stretch.  Depending on how the rifle was set up at the armory with a piticular numbered bolt head this can cause excessive head space with some brass.  The graphic below shows what happens to the case when fired and why you can get head case seperation in as little as two firing especially if you full length resize or the case stretches to much to begin with because of excessive headspace cased either by the shorter bolt head or a thinner cartridge case rim or a combination of both.

 

 

If you having this issue of case head seperation even after neck sizing your cases only or brass life is still short you can try the Oring trick.  It works best and I would recommend doing it on the first firing with a reduce load to fireform the cases to the rifle chamber after doing so the cases will now headspace on the newly formed shoulder instead of the rim and you will have zero headspace issues.   All you need to do is take one of the new cases you intend to load and fine the appropriate O-ring that slips over the case and fits snug up agents the cartridge case rim like in the graphic. It's also a good idea to remove the extractor from the bolt head so it doesn't mess up your O-rings cases can be pushed out with a cleaning rod after fireforming.

 

 

In this graphic the O-ring holds the cartridge case head up agents the bolt face,when fired and the case expands all the brass flow forward to form a new shoulder and the case head doesnt stretch and thin out like before.

 

 

This is the end result,from this point on neck size your case only and only bump the shoulder back enough so it chamber without a hard bolt close.

 

Edited November 20, 2014 by Reloader762

[LngRngShtr]

I failed to find the crack pipe icon when I posted but yeah I looked at him a bit funny and decided to just "move on"

 

been at this game for over 25 years and it had to be one of the more outrageous claims lately easier to just walk away.

 

 Still love my SMLE and do fire form them, they just seem to grow quicker than my M-1 brass

 

 Back to the thread at hand :

 

I am still thinking of someday adding a Mosin to the collection  just have to get opportunity and finances to arrive at the same time.  Surplus Ammo . com had a Deal of the day for a Spam Can at 89.00  don't know what the going rate is but I bet shipping would have hurt.

Edited November 20, 2014 by LngRngShtr

[Guest kingarmory]

_^Nevermind

Edited December 20, 2014 by kingarmory