High end 1911's, what's the big deal?

[E4 No More]

I prefer not to risk my life on the performance and reliability of metal-injection molded parts.

[expendable]

I prefer not to risk my life on the performance and reliability of metal-injection molded parts.

Oh crap, here we go!

[E4 No More]

Oh crap, here we go!

What's that supposed to mean?

 

I have a 1911A1 built in 1945 that has all Ed Brown innards in it now.

[Jonnin]

Sorry to disappoint you but I've ran 5000rnds. down my Wilson CQB Elite, 6500rnds. down my Night Hawk GRP that I have around $3800 in it and I carry it every day and a few more 1000rnds down the other ones I own. I didn't spend the money on what I have just to shoot "bullseye" and as far a doing mag dumps go well......... and I shoot these 1911's better than a revolver.

 

Totally different machine.  This type of custom 1911 is made to be reliable, and they are.  I could not comment on whether they are of acceptable accuracy to the top 10 shooters in the country or not ...   but they are still made in a similar way to the competition stuff with the fitting etc.   Same idea, different end goal, as far as the price tag is concerned. 

[gregintenn]

I prefer not to risk my life on the performance and reliability of metal-injection molded parts.

Do you drive a car? :doh:

[Jonnin]

I prefer not to risk my life on the performance and reliability of metal-injection molded parts.

 

There are merits to this if you carry the weapon.   But the parts most likely to break are fairly cheap replacements so the price difference there is minimal.  Replace the extractor and if really paranoid the trigger transfer bar.  Is anything else likely to snap?   I have lost 1 mim part ever ... during break in of a new gun ... extractor snapped.  Free replacement (still  mim) has worked and since its not a carry gun, I am not worried about it.   But mim parts can get an air bubble, there is no denying it. 

[expendable]

Do you drive a car? :doh:

That's exactly where I was going, and don't even think about flying, jet engines are full of MIM.

[E4 No More]

Do you drive a car? :doh:

One is choice; the other is not...get it?

[gregintenn]

One is choice; the other is not...get it?

No. You could commission a machinist to build a vehicle to your high standards. Makes about as much sense as you looking down your nose at the majority of people who carry standard factory built guns.

[teecro]

That's exactly where I was going, and don't even think about flying, jet engines are full of MIM.

 

Exactly there is quality MIM and then there is cheap MIM.... It matters not guns, jets etc you do get what you pays for.....

[E4 No More]

No. You could commission a machinist to build a vehicle to your high standards. Makes about as much sense as you looking down your nose at the majority of people who carry standard factory built guns.

And just where did I look down my nose at others who carry standard factory built guns? I believe that I stated who gives a crap where others choose to spend their money?

[peejman]

That's exactly where I was going, and don't even think about flying, jet engines are full of MIM.

 

 

Jet engines.... you sure about that?  I work on them daily and have never seen an MIM part in any sort of structural application.

[E4 No More]

Jet engines.... you sure about that?  I work on them daily and have never seen an MIM part in any sort of structural application.

I've never seen MIM on car parts that matter, (ie: engine, brakes, frame), either.

[expendable]

Jet engines.... you sure about that?  I work on them daily and have never seen an MIM part in any sort of structural application.

I think they call it powdered or sintered metal in turbine engine manufacturing .
Some of the compressr discs are made this way.

I'm sure it's much more high tech than a firearm part, but the theory is the same.

[gregintenn]

I've never seen MIM on car parts that matter, (ie: engine, brakes, frame), either.

You got me there. I'm no metallurgist. I don't really know the difference in metal castings and metal injection molded parts. :shrug:

[Omega]

I personally have no problems risking my life on any of the weapons I own whether its my Sprinfield, Kimber Classic, or Glock (all lower end for the brand).  Heck, I had to risk it on equipment supplied by the lowest bidder for 21 years, and luckily it all went bang when it needed to.  To me it really is a matter of choice on what you want to spend and then its a matter of getting one that does not turn out to be a lemon.  I have had identical guns shoot much differently so its not even a brand issue.  Though I personally would not buy a hi-point, I have fired them, they go bang and hit a torso at engagement range; just don't like the looks, but heck I don't like the Glock 19 either.  But I am a cheap bastard, I would never pay over 1K for a gun when a 400 to 600 one will do the same thing, which goes for scopes, cars, trucks and any other thing that gets over priced because of the brand label on it. 

Edited November 18, 2014 by Omega

[peejman]

I think they call it powdered or sintered metal in turbine engine manufacturing .
Some of the compressr discs are made this way.

I'm sure it's much more high tech than a firearm part, but the theory is the same.

 

 

Ok, a little reading tells me that yes, there are some rotating parts made from powdered metal.  But, they're processed very differently from the typical MIM or sintered parts you'd find in things like cars or guns. 

 

https://www.atimetals.com/businesses/powdermetals/markets/Pages/Aerospace.aspx

[expendable]

Ok, a little reading tells me that yes, there are some rotating parts made from powdered metal. But, they're processed very differently from the typical MIM or sintered parts you'd find in things like cars or guns.

https://www.atimetals.com/businesses/powdermetals/markets/Pages/Aerospace.aspx

There is more than you would think, the fact remains it still starts life as powdered metal but is processed different because of the application.

Heck the compressor and turbine blades are cast, we all know how people use to scream about that when they started to see cast 1911 frames.

This is from a Powder metallurgy fact sheet:

-Strategically important to products such as automobile engines and transmissions, aircraft turbine engines, riding lawn mowers, surgical instruments, power tools, oil/gas well drilling equipment and off-road tractors.

-Commercial aircraft engines contain 1,500-4,400 pounds of PM superalloy extruded forgings per engine. Edited November 18, 2014 by expendable

[Caster]

There is no big deal.  Often, though not always, it's proportional to ego and/or Mine's bigger than yours.  Either way it goes, it's what makes you happy.  Some folks are happy feeding the delusion.  If they are, more power to them.  The folks who make the things are happy for the business.  

[peejman]

There is more than you would think, the fact remains it still starts life as powdered metal but is processed different because of the application.

Heck the compressor and turbine blades are cast, we all know how people use to scream about that when they started to see cast 1911 frames.

This is from a Powder metallurgy fact sheet:

-Strategically important to products such as automobile engines and transmissions, aircraft turbine engines, riding lawn mowers, surgical instruments, power tools, oil/gas well drilling equipment and off-road tractors.

-Commercial aircraft engines contain 1,500-4,400 pounds of PM superalloy extruded forgings per engine.

 

 

I don't disagree, but you're comparing apples and chainsaws.  Yes, turbine blades are cast but so is every other metal part in existence.  All metals start out as a casting.  Some parts (like turbine blades) are cast in a very specific way to yield very specific properties for a very specific purpose.  Other parts go through a wide variety of processes between casting and finished product (like extruding and forging mentioned above) that have huge effect on the end result.    It's nothing like making MIM parts or sintered powdered metal parts, other than it involves metal.

[tnhawk]

... So what is the difference between a $1000ish dollar 1911 and a $3000 1911?..... I just can't see what I would get for 3X the price that I don't already have.

 

The difference is about $2000.  Some want the difference in the guns, others don't.  Same as with knives,watches or cars.

[94user]

I'm happy with my $400 RIA. Accurate as I am, probably better. Hasn't jammed in over 600 rounds. Doesn't have the best finish but that's good. I'd probably have a fit if I scratched a 2K Wilson Combat that I'm sure I couldn't shoot any better with.

[gregintenn]

I'm happy with my $400 RIA. Accurate as I am, probably better. Hasn't jammed in over 600 rounds. Doesn't have the best finish but that's good. I'd probably have a fit if I scratched a 2K Wilson Combat that I'm sure I couldn't shoot any better with.

I'm very pleased with my Rock Island. It is accurate, and has been 100% reliable. I am under no illusion, however, that it's fit, finish, and accuracy potential are on par with a $3000 custom gun. I'm also happy with my Chevy. It's reliable, and runs great. I also don't think it would compare favorably with a Ferrari. I'm glad they make items at different price points for different tastes.

 

 

Bottom line, if you want the very best available, you are going to have to shell out a lot of money. In the end, it's up to you to decide whether that last bit of fit, finish, and accuracy is worth the extra dough.

[Guest NashvegasMatt]

What's the big deal you say... Pride, craftsmanship and exclusivity... Same reason some people drive ferrari's... There's s always a high end consumer, so why not a high end product

[Dustbuster]

To answer the op question, I say ask Tim Calhoun.

I'll equate the difference w this

You can navigate and push across a rough ass junkyard w a riding lawnmower. Rough,bumpy as hell but it gets u there.
Contrail you can jump on a d6 dozer and cruise through making a smooth clear path with little resistance, and jump off the machine feeling great.

I'm not a 1911 nut but u can feel the difference between an outta the box mass produced gun and a fine tuned one..
Hope this helps