Law Enforcement and shooting dogs.

[suspiciousmind]

I've seen some fairly awful videos recently and read stories about law enforcement unnecessarily(in my opinion) shooting dogs.

There was one instance where the cop jumped into an innocent's backyard and gunned down the owner's dog,

What is y'all's take on this?

For myself, I think that if I saw someone gun down a life that I feel to be a true member of my family, cop or not I would probably act accordingly. Especially in the instance of a police officer being on my property for no reason and gunning down my animal for no reason, there must be some sort of fighting back one could do as they are not immune or above the law.

The topic of cops and their abuse of power is a heavy topic in my mind, as some of the police officers in my family were heavily involved in organized crime.

[nightrunner]

While I fully support law enforcement and them doing right, I hate overstepping and abuse of power. That said, as much as some people would like to think so, a pet, specifically a dog in this case is a posession not a person. And in TN, the law does not allow the use of lethal force to protect our property.

Would it be different if it were a robotic mobile turret in your backyard and the police immobilized it by whatever means they had at hand if necessary? Remember dogs are territorial and dont understand lae like humans, they dont see a badge, just someone who doesnt belong so they attack. Sometimes LE need to remain quiet and they utilize whatever means necessary, to them its no different than destroying a speaker.

[dawgdoc]

I think cops need training on the difference between the dog that is actually attacking and the dog that is barking loudly in defense of its property.  The problem with many of the stories is that the cops apparently did not even give any thought to what they were doing (such as shooting an ankle-biter dog).  I think the normal rules should apply--only use a gun when absolutely necessary in defense of life, know your target and what is beyond, etc.

 

In my house, if a cop broke down the door because they had the wrong address, my 40-pound dog might approach a few steps, barking loudly, hackles raised, but would most likely not attack.  Based on the situations that I have seen, that would most likely get her shot, and our main living area where she stays is the second floor over a finished basement, so I could see a shot aimed at a dog going through the floor and into the room below.

 

My personal belief is that if the dog is latched onto your body, that is when you get to shoot it, not before, even if it is running toward you, and especially not just because it is growling or barking in the corner of the room.  I see a lot of dogs that don't like me, and most are fear aggressive--they are not going to attack if you leave them alone.  The few that have lunged at me could have caused a serious wound if they connected, but I doubt they could have (or would have) actually got my throat.

 

So yes, are there times based on my system when a cop might be harmed in the interest of being absolutely sure that the dog is a threat?  Yes, but I feel that risk is outweighed by the dangers created by shooting dogs that didn't need shooting.  As for drug dealers who have guard dogs--I don't think the dogs should be executed just because the owner is a bad guy anymore than I think the cops should be able to set his house on fire just to get him out.  Does killing the guard dogs make their job easier?  Yes, but so does suspending the Constitution.

[btq96r]

I think cops need training on the difference between the dog that is actually attacking and the dog that is barking loudly in defense of its property.  The problem with many of the stories is that the cops apparently did not even give any thought to what they were doing (such as shooting an ankle-biter dog).  I think the normal rules should apply--only use a gun when absolutely necessary in defense of life, know your target and what is beyond, etc.

 

In my house, if a cop broke down the door because they had the wrong address, my 40-pound dog might approach a few steps, barking loudly, hackles raised, but would most likely not attack.  Based on the situations that I have seen, that would most likely get her shot, and our main living area where she stays is the second floor over a finished basement, so I could see a shot aimed at a dog going through the floor and into the room below.

 

My personal belief is that if the dog is latched onto your body, that is when you get to shoot it, not before, even if it is running toward you, and especially not just because it is growling or barking in the corner of the room.  I see a lot of dogs that don't like me, and most are fear aggressive--they are not going to attack if you leave them alone.  The few that have lunged at me could have caused a serious wound if they connected, but I doubt they could have (or would have) actually got my throat.

 

So yes, are there times based on my system when a cop might be harmed in the interest of being absolutely sure that the dog is a threat?  Yes, but I feel that risk is outweighed by the dangers created by shooting dogs that didn't need shooting.  As for drug dealers who have guard dogs--I don't think the dogs should be executed just because the owner is a bad guy anymore than I think the cops should be able to set his house on fire just to get him out.  Does killing the guard dogs make their job easier?  Yes, but so does suspending the Constitution.

 

Well put, all around.

 

 

In a lot of these "cops shoot dog stories" I've been reading, the evidence justifying the shooting of dogs is speculative at best, and it reminds me of the classic South Park scene...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt6kKhlX8vU

 

 

I'll leave it at this: “He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings with men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals.”
-Immaunel Kant

[toby1304]

There is an officer that stops everytime he sees our dog outside and gets down on his knees and plays with him. His uniform is covered with white dog hair. Thank goodness the majority of police officers are also decent human beings, but there's that small percentage that are despicable and unfortunately those are the ones we always hear about. I personally think it would be easier to kick a human than a dog. Have you heard the 911 tape of Marcus Luttrell chasing the guys that shot his dog?

[dawgdoc]

Part of the problem is the lack of training.  Knowing the body language of dogs would go a long way, I would hope, to decreasing the number of dogs shot.  Also, training on using the Taser.  East Ridge Animal Control were given Tasers; they were taught to aim them gangsta' style so that the barbs would hit the dog correctly, but I think they would still have to be close.  A baton would probably persuade some of the more aggressive dogs to stop an attack.

 

I should also point out that there are dogs that truly are jerks, that is, they will attack without fear or provocation.  Even then, since I know those dogs are rare, I don't think that I would personally shoot until after kicking first.  The other day I was walking my dog, and a boxer came charging out of its yard with hackles raised, but all I did was try to keep my dog away, and nothing happened.  So many dogs can look vicious, but then don't follow through on the threat.  

[Ted S.]

[eRay]

I think a lot of cops have a thing about not liking to be challenged either by a person or a dog. They know they can get away with shooting the dog. .

[Hozzie]

That said, as much as some people would like to think so, a pet, specifically a dog in this case is a posession not a person. And in TN, the law does not allow the use of lethal force to protect our property.
 

 

Try and harm (or do harm) my "possesion" without what I feel is just cause and we'll see where it ends.  I don't care what the law says.  I am not trying to be a tough guy, but believe me, the last thought on my mind would be the law considering my dog a possession.  

 

I agree with DawgDoc, police need more training.  Realize that I work in the Law Enforcement community and have nothing but respect for the overwhelming majority of the people that work in the community.  This is a training issue no doubt.  Until some of these bad cops are held accountable, I don't see it changing.   

Edited November 11, 2014 by Hozzie

[JWC]

How is "your" dog just a possession but a k9 is a "police officer?"

[billyscott]

To me, my dog is not a possession, she is family, she is my friend. And I will not stand by and let her get hurt.

[Dolomite_supafly]

So far the discussion has been civil and fair. With that being said as soon as someone comes in and starts bashing cops I will lock this down. Lets try to avoid stereotyping ALL officers with blanket statements or trying to prove there are bad officers out there. We all know every profession, including law enforcement, has bad apples so please do not post articles, or videos, to prove some officers are bad.

 

Now with that being said this has gone through my head a lot recently. Mostly because I have had acquaintances who have had their dogs shot and it does seem like it is a growing problem among law enforcement. And all an officer needs to say, not prove, is they were in fear of being bitten to create justification for it. And I know there are a lot of cases where shooting an animal is justified in order to protect the officer but I also believe there are a lot of cases that should have been handled much differently to save the life of a cherished pet.

 

So how do we change this disturbing trend? First thing is training. Training would be the fastest and best way to change this. Second would be being able to hold those officers accountable, both criminally and civilly. And not just not for destroying a piece of property but charging them criminally for the same exact charge any one of us would be charged with if we shot some strangers dog. That is charge them with reckless endangerment for discharging a weapon, aggravated assault if any humans are present and finally aggravated animal cruelty. After officers start going to jail the rest will think twice before discharging their duty weapon. I am not sure what I would do if an officer shot one of my family members. If I were to be present at the time of the incident I would have a very, very hard time not doing something that would likely put me in jail for life. No way I could stand idly by while any of my loved ones were being killed by anyone.

 

Again, lets keep it civil and not start bashing law enforcement.

[mikegideon]

There has been quite a bit of buzz out there lately. My guess is the public pressure will lead to new policies, same way most of these kinda things go. Killing somebody's dog is pretty brutal.

 

With that said, I'm carrying a pretty good sized scar from a Rotty that attacked me in my own back yard. I would have shot him right in the face if I would have been armed.

[TMF]

Anyone who unnecessarily kills an animal, regardless of their profession, is a crappy person. Unfortunately, some of those people become cops and feel emboldened to do what they normally wouldn't when they are subject to the law. Those types, one would think, should be terminated and charged as soon as they are discovered.

There was a case in Clarksville a couple years ago where a cop shot a dog in the owners yard, with the dog on a chain at the time. The owner was inside the house, heard the shot and found their dog dead. The officer was cutting through the yard during a search for a missing kid. There were no more stories in the paper regarding the incident, but I can't believe there is an excuse for trespassing into someone's yard, then killing a dog which is restrained. In that scenario, you get to take a bite. Sorry. The onus is on the officer, not the dog, to have his head functioning from outside his ass.

On another note, trashy people let their dogs run loose, usually aggressive dogs. My cousin responded to a 911 call several years ago where a couple of loose pit bulls chased a man through his neighborhood and he was able to jump in a vehicle and call 911. My cousin was in the area and went to respond. Upon arriving to where the gentleman was hiding, one of the dogs charged him and he shot and killed it. Of course, all the comments on the story were people saying that it was just a cop murdering someone's dog, and he didn't have to shoot it. Meanwhile, nobody acknowledges that an owner allowed dangerous animals to roam the streets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[suspiciousmind]

How is "your" dog just a possession but a k9 is a "police officer?"

This.

Also, I'm not trying to demonize police officers in anyway. I have a lot of respect for the law and those that enforce it.

[bersaguy]

Ok, I will wade in on this as it has been coming to the forefront often recently. I think it is a policy of most police departments that their officers have either pepper spray or Mace on them. Both of these items are known to repel grizzly bears so surely it will deter any dog from attacking.............jmho

[Guest carter]

How is "your" dog just a possession but a k9 is a "police officer?"

 

 

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/aug/03/man-sentenced-in-dog-killing/

[peejman]

As others have said, some people are "dog people" who have some understanding of their behavior and how the deal with them, and some people aren't and view them in the same way others might view a bug.  Cops reside in both of those categories. 

[Dustbuster]

As others have said, some people are "dog people" who have some understanding of their behavior and how the deal with them, and some people aren't and view them in the same way others might view a bug. Cops reside in both of those categories.

this is so true. there are so many things to consider when confronted w a dog who is doing what he normally does when scared confronted or protecting.

I've seen my fair share of dogs and animals being put down to where it wasnt right, and it made my blood boil beyond nuke meltdown. some so bad it drew tears from anyone that would bear witness.
its hard to justify,or condemn sometimes unless you are there. per the OP,yes were seeing more due to social media and news feeds. dolomite posted some good sentiment. more officers need to be acclimated w handling animals on calls.

As far as the guy goes who jumped the fence while looking for a missing child. he was wrong, the city should have suspended him,done a psych e val and paid the family back for their loss.
he had no pc to be there, and violated that families rights.

maybe more depts will enhance their protocol and policy because of what he did. that would be a plus.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk, Hell yeah it ate my spelling!!! again!! Edited November 11, 2014 by Dustbuster

[bersaguy]

I think being part of going through any police academy should require learning how to deal with dogs other than shooting them. Like I mentioned earlier. I have several friends that live in Alaska and the Northwest Territory of Canada and Mace and Pepper Spray are both very good deterrents against large predators such as Grizzly and Kodiak bears an Black bears and even Mountain lions. Of the two most folks up that way choose the Pepper sprays as they have been improved to be 5 times more effective on the bigger predators....................I think a self defense spray should be mandatory for every officer...........JMHO  

[E4 No More]

What is the penalty if you kill a police dog? What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[Dustbuster]

Not sure but this was argued recently in a higher court, hopefully someone can post the answer to that

[bersaguy]

Ok, I went and did a little research to see if I could find out if and what the penalty would be for injuring or killing a Police K-9. I found a lot more information with much of it pertaining to how each states handled the issue. There was a couple that stood out and links are listed below.  The two that got my attention the most was the first two. #1 is pertaining to Federal K-9 dogs and it was passed last year making it a Federal felony.  #2 Tells about a made in S.C. Getting 35 years for all the crimes but the judge in the case did add a 5 year addition to the mans sentence for killing the K-9. In this article pay close attention to how the police force felt and the death of this dog. It said some Police even came to tears in the trial.  My point here is they were hurt because one of their dogs had been killed. Does that make the lost any more special than it would be if it was your best friend killed for no reason by a police officer. I'm sure that those officers were hurt. I would be to if I was an officer and knew the dog. But what they have been doing recently should not be justified either.............jmho.

 

#1            http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=96229

 

#2           http://www.thestate.com/2014/01/06/3192806/man-accused-of-killing-police.html

[Dustbuster]

Thanks bersa

[E4 No More]

My point is that killing a civilian dog is no different than killing a police dog. Slippery slope and all.