Flat foot reload

[dlmeadows]

They say it's been deleted but then say it will not be gone. Which is it??

[ROCKRIVERAR15]

Do you mean ff reload or ESR or both?

[CatsEye]

Typo.

[dlmeadows]

That's what I thought. Ithink they will combine revolver divisions as well

[Spiffy]

FOR SALE  625 and Master Tac holster.............

 

 

I hold no hope for the Optics division.........but I think it will get the nod since you can already shoot Compact Carry Guns in SSP or ESP.

[dlmeadows]

I'll give you 250

[ROCKRIVERAR15]

Why drop ESR? The only thing that does is devalue a lot of great guns and leave out ESR shooters. Better to drop ESP or SSP since there is almost no difference in classification. Maybe leave ESR in but they have to do flat footed reload:)

[Jcoop]

If CCP get put in that means no more "BUG" matches. Some of us know how much fun those are, don't we. Big fun, don't knock till you try it. Not saying no names. LOP, IDPA open class !!! Never thought I'd see that. And now the cry babies will stop whining about the flatfoot crap. Maybe they'll start letting knee braces be used " outside the pant ". Oh my, what will they think of next. IDPA is like TN weather, if you don't like it, hang out a while it'll change.

[Jcoop]

ESR will probably go back with SSR

[HOGNUT]

BUG will be the new CCP..........reloads can now be done but up to MD to decide if they want to require reloads or 5 shot max CoFs. Edited November 4, 2014 by HOGNUT

[dlmeadows]

Knee braces provide too much of atactical advantage. Those gamers that have to have them need to stop....

[ROCKRIVERAR15]

Gonna keep my 625 though. Still have 3000 rounds of rat shot for chirpy chipmunks. Lets not forget what these guns are really for.

[dlmeadows]

Uspsa major revolver division

[DMark]

Good Bye Flat Foot Reloads!

 

Now we SOs can get our focus back to the important stuff like where the muzzle and trigger finger are.......  :up:

[Cruel Hand Luke]

BUG will be the new CCP..........reloads can now be done but up to MD to decide if they want to require reloads or 5 shot max CoFs.

OK, but if G19 and SW MP Compact are OK (per the announcement) then it truly is not a "BUG" friendly classification. Sure you can shoot your Khar PM9 if you want....but someone with a "mid size" pistol is going to have a huge advantage if stages are same as the rest of the match. An 18 round stage is 3 full mags from a Khar PM9....... And shooting 5 round only stages with a G19 is just frankly just ludicrous.

 

If it is a seperate category to be run at matches on the same course of fire with SSP Division capacity then OK, fine,  that makes sense. People are going to shoot the biggest gun they can to be competitive and as such, the G19, one of the most carried CCW guns is conspicuously absent at IDPA matches in the holsters of higher level shooters.

 

 I shot 10 sanctioned matches this year and do not remember seeing 10 TOTAL G19 sized guns in my squads all year combined. So if this is adding a division so that people can compete against each other with one of the most often carried CCW firearms and not full size service guns and long slide competition guns in the same division then I'm all for it. ....but if this is just a bastardization of the BUG matches but allowing bigger guns than are currently allowed in BUG then that is a waste of time and effort and ANOTHER big miss by IDPA HQ.

 

Add the CCP and KEEP the BUG stuff too, don't get rid of the BUG by adding a category that they CAN shoot their BUG in but will never be competitive in. Heck, for that matter you can shoot a BUG in SSP now.....but no one does so they need to keep BUG as a seperate thing, not merge it with CCP.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Cruel Hand Luke

[Jcoop]

G19 is to long 4" it would be a G26 3.5" for BUG. I feel the same way, if they do what they say, it dose away with "BUG" and makes it a free for all SSP division.

[shackelford]

I never understood the reasoning of the flat foot reload, that rule seemed to come out of nowhere. I'm glad it's gone. Hopefully the wording of the section makes good sense once it's gone. At that point, I'm pretty satisfied with the new rule book, I think.

As for the CCP, I really don't see much point if it is defined for guns as big as the G19. If that's the case, and they get rid of BUG, then there's no way real BUGs could compete. Meanwhile, the difference between a G17 and a G19 is so small in terms of IDPA performance, I don't see much of a differentiator between CCP and SSP. Sure you don't see many G19s at sanctioned matches, but you do see plenty at club matches-- it is just that anyone who shoots IDPA matches regularly will just use it as an excuse to go out and buy a new gun :). Is CCP keeping the rest of the BUG rules that make that unique and run as a dedicated match? Or will CCP just be a new division in a standard match? If I were to do it, I'd consider revising he BUG match to add a second division to bring a few more of the larger guns, but score them separately.

I know BUG ain't exactly super popular, but there's something to be said for catering to niches. I hear those matches are fun.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

The reasoning is because it is tactical suicide to leave cover and advance with your gun not topped off. Think of a parking lot scenario . You are behind cover engaging the BG. Your gun runs empty. Are you going to advance while loading? Advance toward the guys SHOOTING AT YOU with no way to shoot back until the reload is finished? Probably not. You want to get it reloaded before ever leaving cover....that makes good sense. Leaving cover with an empty gun is not smart.  

 

But what if you are behind cover at the back end of the car and run empty and decide to reload as you move to the front of the car (but still behind cover)? You are STILL behind cover...right? So what your feet are doing should be irrelevant.  So you should be able to move your feet and reload IF you are not Banzai charging them with an empty pistol. Those are 2 different things. Moving is not always "advancing" but "advancing" is always "moving"......

 

Problem is that they are making rules for a GAME that is populated by "Range Lawyers" and they have to make rules that are clear and easy to enforce. In order to keep people from doing the IPSC reload on the move (running from position to position reloading) they instituted the "flat foot " reload because that was the only way they could word the RULES OF A GAME  to make it clear across the board for all clubs and Safety Officers. 

[Cruel Hand Luke]

As to CCP I'm all for it if it is essentially SSP and ESP for short guns. They mentioned single actions were legal so that means a Para Ord P12 or a Glock 19 would be OK. I have no problem with that. Like I said, it might be good to see more compact pistols at IDPA matches since most folks are going to shoot the biggest easiest to shoot gun they can to be competitive. As such you see all the G34s in SSP and full size 9mm 1911s in ESP. I doubt 2% of the people shooting SSP with a 34 or ESP with a full size 1911 REALLY carry that in everyday life. What do most carry? A G19 or MP compact or XD compact or something similar. This would create a division for folks who want to be competitive with their real carry gun and not have to shoot it against a G34 or a 5" 9mm 1911. Now, having said that, I actually DO carry a full size pistol concealed on my person( G17 or a G34) in everyday life. But most people do not. 

 

And I'd even be OK with allowing some minor mods. A little stippling on the grip of your otherwise box stock G19 should not force you shoot against $3000 STI 9mm 1911s. As it stands now, stipple your glock and you get sentenced to Enhanced Service Pistol to shoot against 40 oz single action 1911s in 9mm........ But that is a different subject.....

 

How IDPA can screw this all up is to make G19 and SW MP compacts legal in same category as people would be shooting their back up guns like the Khar PM9 or their SW Shield or SW J frame. The only way to make a shield competitive with a G19 is to make the round count low enough to negate the capacity advantage of the G19. And that would just make this a ridiculous exercise in "fairness" not anything even remotely realistic. NO ONE downloads their G19 to 5 rounds.......Keep the BUG category and limit the round counts to make J frames and Shields and G26s "more equal" but don't allow G19s in ...that would just be ridiculous. 

 

So keep the BUG as a separate thing and use CCP as a means of getting people to shoot the guns they are REALLY carrying (IF they actually carry guns in real life but that is a pet peeve for another time....) 

Edited November 4, 2014 by Cruel Hand Luke

[Cruel Hand Luke]

As to the LPO I'm all for that too. Red Dot pistols are a reality. And so are lasers. Like it or not,  it is not 1950 or 1970 or even 1997 anymore.  You see them in gun magazines every month and I see them in classes more and more. They may not quite be "mainstream" yet, but they are heading in that direction. SW now makes the MP CORE as a regular production item. So IDPA can either keep its head in the sand and remain an iron sight only game or they can step into the 21st century and allow lasers and red dots. Especially since there are REAL gun carriers out there carrying those guns for REAL. I know several police officers who carry them as their duty gun and even more civilians who carry them as their EDC CCW gun. 

 

People have always argued it would be an unfair advantage if they shot those in ESP or SSP against iron sighted guns. Fine. Give it its own division and that argument goes away. Heck, we have separate divisions for revolvers and autos...and that (going from revolver to auto) is a bigger advantage than a laser or a red dot adds to an auto against another auto. So I'm all for the LPO division. 

 

With the added divisions we will have

 

SSP (full size double action service guns or smaller guns if you wish) 

 

ESP (full size single action (or double action if you choose) 9mm and .40 cal guns )

 

CDP (anything in .45 auto but primarily full size single actions)

 

CCP (compact carry guns both SA and DA )

 

LPO (any autos with laser or optics )

 

SSR ( revolvers)

 

SSR LPO (revolvers with optics or lasers)

 

BUG (small low capacity guns that really do not compete well with mid size or full size guns )

 

ESR will be gone, and frankly I'm not sure that is a good idea but I don't have a dog in that race since I don't shoot ESR. BUt they said they'd try to merge it with SSR. 

 

 

With the new divisions and assuming they merge ESR and SSR that pretty much covers all the bases...... 

Edited November 4, 2014 by Cruel Hand Luke

[HOGNUT]

None of the divisions are added. They are seeing if members want one of them in the future.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

Then YES I do....