Carrying long guns in Tennessee

[n5odj]

Why can't we? I'd sure like to keep a shotgun (loaded, of course) in my car, but TN law says I'd be a criminal if I did. Maybe I'll write my state representative after the election. Does anyone have a sample letter written for such a purpose?

Robert in Erwin, TN

[Guest 270win]

About all you can do is have a loaded long gun (when off your property or business) when doing something related to competition, hunting, fishing, hiking, or camping. The law does not say it has to be unloaded when on the way to the destinations....you just have to be in an activity incident to say hunting to not be considered intending to go armed. My interpretation is going to your hunting spot is incident to hunting.

[Oh Shoot]

About all you can do is have a loaded long gun (when off your property or business) when doing something related to competition, hunting, fishing, hiking, or camping. The law does not say it has to be unloaded when on the way to the destinations....you just have to be in an activity incident to say hunting to not be considered intending to go armed. My interpretation is going to your hunting spot is incident to hunting.

Where ARE the laws in TCA re long gun possession/use?

- OS

[cknight8]

About all you can do is have a loaded long gun (when off your property or business) when doing something related to competition, hunting, fishing, hiking, or camping. The law does not say it has to be unloaded when on the way to the destinations....you just have to be in an activity incident to say hunting to not be considered intending to go armed. My interpretation is going to your hunting spot is incident to hunting.

i think you'd better double check that, i believe that in transportation of the long guns that they must still be unloaded. i know if you are hunting public lands, all weapons must be unloaded while in the motor vehicle, as it is illegal to hunt from a motor vehicle. with a loaded firearm in there, i guess they consider you "hunting"...

[Guest Revelator]

I would say that it's ok to have them loaded incident to hunting, sport shooting, etc. Here is the law:

39-17-1308. Defenses to unlawful possession or carrying of a weapon.

(a) It is a defense to the application of § 39-17-1307 (unlawful poss. of weapon)if the possession or carrying was:

(1) Of an unloaded rifle, shotgun or handgun not concealed on or about the person and the ammunition for the weapon was not in the immediate vicinity of the person or weapon;

(4) Incident to lawful hunting, trapping, fishing, camping, sport shooting or other lawful activity;

I skipped subsecs (2) and (3) because they're not relevant here. Notice (1) says unloaded rifle or shotgun. (4) has no requirement that it be unloaded. (1) basically says you can walk down the street with your AK as long as it's not concealed and you leave the ammo at home. Under (4), if you're transporting the long gun to go hunting or to the range, it appears it could be loaded.

[Guest Centennial]

IIRC,The Tennessee Supreme Court had previously ruled that a HCP does not allow the carrying of a loaded longgun (rifle or shotgun) in a vehicle. Even when hunting, a long gun must be unloaded when being transported.

[Fallguy]

IIRC,The Tennessee Supreme Court had previously ruled that a HCP does not allow the carrying of a loaded longgun (rifle or shotgun) in a vehicle. Even when hunting, a long gun must be unloaded when being transported.

You're right in that a HCP only applies to handguns.

The law DAS quoted has nothing to do with having a HCP or not.

But I agree there is some debate whether the defenses in 39-17-1308(a) mean actively engaged in those activities or not.

[Guest Revelator]

The law isn't clear about how far "incident to" goes, and I could be wrong in my interpretation that -1308(4) allows you to transport the gun loaded. I imagine that law was written to apply when you're actually in the act of doing one of those shooting activities, like hunting or sport shooting. At that point, the gun has to be loaded. When you come across that 10-point buck in the clearing, you're going to want to have your weapon loaded rather than take a round out of your pocket and feed it in the chamber. Or take the guy who goes to the range with his pistol and does not have a carry permit. While he's there at the range he's in possession of a loaded handgun without a permit. Well obviously it has to be loaded for him to shoot...so that's an easy example of the "incident to" part. But what about driving to and from the range? What if you have to stop at the store on the way home? Sure it's necessary for you to make that drive to go shooting but is it "incident to?" Considering that, it's probably best for non-permit holders to keep their pistols unloaded to and from the range. So on second thought I'd say that the legislature intended the loaded part to apply only when you're actually shooting/hunting. But I don't know; I'd like to read that Supreme Court decision. I think that alot of the time the worst thing that would happen is they tell you to unload it and have a safe trip. Sometimes I keep my 12 gauge and 308 loaded when driving to the range. I don't sweat it. But I could also see someone getting into real trouble over this, especially if it's a loaded pistol and they have no permit.

[Mike.357]

Okay, you can't transport a loaded long gun in your vehicle.

What about loaded magazines? Can they be in the interior with the rifle or in the trunk with the rifle? Do they have to be transported apart from the weapon?

Can they be loaded in the vehicle at all?

Good thing there is no limit on questions per post.

[Guest Revelator]

Ammo cannot be "in the immediate vicinity of the person or the weapon." Since we're talking about cars, that could be anywhere. So I'd say no to the lead. But you could always build a secret compartment in the gas tank or engine block like the drug dealers do.

[Mike.357]

Ammo cannot be "in the immediate vicinity of the person or the weapon."

so loaded mags could be in an ammo box inside the toolbox on the truck or in the trunk of the car if the long gun was in the interior?

[Fallguy]

The law isn't clear about how far "incident to" goes, and I could be wrong in my interpretation that -1308(4) allows you to transport the gun loaded. I imagine that law was written to apply when you're actually in the act of doing one of those shooting activities, like hunting or sport shooting. At that point, the gun has to be loaded. When you come across that 10-point buck in the clearing, you're going to want to have your weapon loaded rather than take a round out of your pocket and feed it in the chamber. Or take the guy who goes to the range with his pistol and does not have a carry permit. While he's there at the range he's in possession of a loaded handgun without a permit. Well obviously it has to be loaded for him to shoot...so that's an easy example of the "incident to" part. But what about driving to and from the range? What if you have to stop at the store on the way home? Sure it's necessary for you to make that drive to go shooting but is it "incident to?" Considering that, it's probably best for non-permit holders to keep their pistols unloaded to and from the range. So on second thought I'd say that the legislature intended the loaded part to apply only when you're actually shooting/hunting. But I don't know; I'd like to read that Supreme Court decision. I think that alot of the time the worst thing that would happen is they tell you to unload it and have a safe trip. Sometimes I keep my 12 gauge and 308 loaded when driving to the range. I don't sweat it. But I could also see someone getting into real trouble over this, especially if it's a loaded pistol and they have no permit.

I think you are right...I too could be wrong but I think the incident to means the possession is incidental to the activity. Like you incidentally have a loaded rifle because are hunting...not on the way to hunting.

Thoughts?

[Guest tedbo]

Well, I have a van that has the wall between the driver and the cargo. It would seem that I would have to leave the long gun in the back and the ammo up front with me.

Mmm...,time to look into a Saiga 12 gauge,or an Ar-15.

Edited October 25, 2008 by tedbo

[Fallguy]

The unloaded weapon or the ammo can be close to you and the other must not be readily accessible. But I believe a loaded weapon anywhere in a vehicle that your in would be considered in you possession, readily accessible or not. ...and other than the reasons we have discussed you can not have a loaded long gun in your possession.

Just my

EDIT...I'm not crazy...this was a reply to a post that is not just a dot (.)

Edited October 25, 2008 by Fallguy

[Guest tedbo]

Heh,heh,heh!

Sorry! I had to do some rethinkin'!

[KahrMan]

The law isn't clear about how far "incident to" goes, and I could be wrong in my interpretation that -1308(4) allows you to transport the gun loaded. I imagine that law was written to apply when you're actually in the act of doing one of those shooting activities, like hunting or sport shooting. At that point, the gun has to be loaded. When you come across that 10-point buck in the clearing, you're going to want to have your weapon loaded rather than take a round out of your pocket and feed it in the chamber.

TWRA is very clear about the rules of hunting. You are absolutely NOT allowed to hunt from a vehicle. Therefore driving to and from your hunting spot is not incident to hunting. It says in the hunting regulations that you can not have a loaded long gun in your vehicle. That means you can not use hunting as a defense to violating 39-17-1308.

If a TWRA officer catches you with a loaded long gun in your vehicle, they will confiscate it and write you a citation.

Hope this helps.

[midtennchip]

Okay, there now appears to be two different issues: (1) can you carry a loaded long gun while driving to/from one of the listed activities and (2) whether having ammo and a gun in the same "vicinity" is okay.

First, everyone should understand that TCA 39-17-1307 (which defines the actual crime) requires more than just possession of the gun. It also requires "the intent to go armed." That's fairly ambiguous, but I think it clears up a lot of these issues.

Carrying Loaded To/From Listed Activities

I would suggest not doing this. It is a big stretch to say driving to/from hunting, trapping, fishing, etc. is "incident" to those activities. You really haven't started those activities while driving to them, so the carrying of a loaded gun cannot be "incident to" an activity that you haven't even started.

Ammo and Gun in the Same Vicinity

While an LEO might not make this distinction, the law clearly says carrying "with the intent to go armed." If you have the ammo in, for example, an ammo can or you have the unloaded gun in a case (particularly if the case is locked), it would be virtually impossible to actually convict someone under TCA 39-17-1308 simply because the ammo and the gun were in the same vehicle (or even in the same area of the vehicle).

Although I shouldn't have do it, I have carried loaded mags right next to my rifle case (unlocked). But, I highly doubt I would have had a problem if I had been stopped.

Midtennchip

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