Never seen a bullet do that before!

[LngRngShtr]

Well if fast and light is uneffective, then I guess rifles are uneffective.

 

 Rifles are a different category,  light and fast is relative  at handgun velocities much like cars using HP to weight ratio we could do the same with bullets and lumping rifles in with handguns would be something like lumping in an ENZO Ferrari with a VW beetle, a Yugo, and a Dodge Omni  they would all hurt if they ran into you at their "normal operating speed" but the splat from the Enzo ..... all effective enough to splatter a human 

 

 It sucks we even as a species have to think about shot placement on a fellow human who has decided that visiting violence on us is somehow a"normal acceptable" practice :( 

 But I am glad we have tools that if used properly will modify that behavior if it comes right down to it.

 

 Practice with your chosen pistol/ammo/holster setup, study your anatomy, study your situational awareness, have a plan with your loved ones so if they are nearby they know what they should/shouldn't do and light a candle that that time never comes that you need to use this knowledge, knowing that if you do you have done all you can to have a good outcome to an uncertain and unpredictable situation.

 

I hope no one who reads this ever has to go to that dark place,some have peered through the door and some have walked in and came back, it isn't something that should be on your vacation list.

[Guest BCR#1]

.45acp, turning human garbage into useful fertilizer since 1905. Author unknown.

 

Bill

[Jonnin]

Well if fast and light is uneffective, then I guess rifles are uneffective.

 

the difference between 800-1000 feet per second and 2500+ feet per second is significant in its own right -- more than doubled.   But that is not even a tenth of the story; since velocity is SQUARED for the energy equation.  800 squared is 640k.   2500 squared is 6250K.   10 times as much nearly.  Cut the mass in half (typical rifle bullet weights) and its "only" 5 times as much in the grand scheme.   

 

On top of that antipersonnel rifle rounds are designed to flip and are generally quite long.  So the .22 caliber rifle makes a 1 inch hole because the bullet is flying sideways.  So it makes the large hole that people favor in their 45s. 

 

Or, as others said already --- you can't really compare the two weapons.   

[HvBikeWlTravel]

 There's a reason why the african white hunters used big, powerful rifles on dangerous game... Big wound channel and extensive penetration...

 

bawana leroy

Well if I have a marauding Rhino coming thru the front door I'll probably reach for the .460(Weatherby) or .600 Goliath. But most of the threat posed in this neck of the woods is 2-legged. Therefore I WILL mix a couple of rounds Guard Dogs in a clip with a couple of Silvertips and Hydroshoks followed up by a couple of rounds of Ball for distance and PENETRATION! What the condemners  fail to take into consideration is that ALL situations are different. What works for my surroundings and my house will definitely  not work for everyone. I don't believe I ever suggested such. But I sure got a LOT of push-back that there's only one perfect choice for everybody.   

[leroy]

Bike.... Ya may have missed the point; and i'll confess to not makin it too clear... The point is that three things contribute to incapacitating animals (...yes, and hoodlums...)... Bulllet placement, wound channel width, and penetration; ergo the "white hunter" point...

 

The "white hunters" needed for the great creatures they hunted, often at close range, to be incapacitated quickly... That was accomplished by a quick loss of blood, hitting of a vital organ (... heart...) and penetrating deeply to make the wound channel and blood loss very quick... The sad truth is that it's the same way with humans... God forbid than any of us would have to stop a hoodlum from hurting us or someone in our care....   

 

Forgive us old grumps for being incredulous at the "under-penetration" thing; but it's true...   I happen to be in the camp that believes that there is plenty of snake oil baloney out there conjured up by the ammo folks to sell "premium self defense" rounds... Hollow point rounds have been around a long time, you could even buy them when i started reloading in the seventies; and, yes, they were available for both pistol and rifle calibers... The fact is that there is nothin new under the sun; but lots of folks seem to be enamoured by these "advanced" bullets... As others have opined, the Glasser slug has been the only real breakthru in self-defense ammo...

 

The "new, improved hollowpoints are simply old wine in new bottles... The problem with hollow points is that they can mushroom too quickly and do the "flesh wound" thing... Ya simply cannot deliver "flesh wounds" and efficiently stop whatever varmint ya are shootin at; be it four legged or two legged...

 

 Michael Brown was shot 7 times if i remember right... He ran away from a cruiser, turned around, and almost made it back to the cruiser before he fell...   I'm willin to bet that he was shot with 40 caliber "magic bullet" hollowpoints...   

 

By the way, "all situations ain't different"... Sadly, they are all the same --- you are tryin to stop the threat...  That may mean quickly stopping folks that may be high on dope or just plain mean is serious business... At the end of the day, that's what this is all about... Here's hopin that no one has to face that terrible task.... 

 

Forgive us for being insensitive... We were, however, trying to be truthful...

 

leroy

Edited October 23, 2014 by leroy

[satalac]

And since it's question time; what does over-penetration get ya?

At least two holes for the target to bleed out of.

[mikegideon]

Bike.... Ya may have missed the point; and i'll confess to not makin it too clear... The point is that three things contribute to incapacitating animals (...yes, and hoodlums...)... Bulllet placement, wound channel width, and penetration; ergo the "white hunter" point...

 

The "white hunters" needed for the great creatures they hunted, often at close range, to be incapacitated quickly... That was accomplished by a quick loss of blood, hitting of a vital organ (... heart...) and penetrating deeply to make the wound channel and blood loss very quick... The sad truth is that it's the same way with humans... God forbid than any of us would have to stop a hoodlum from hurting us or someone in our care....   

 

Forgive us old grumps for being incredulous at the "under-penetration" thing; but it's true...   I happen to be in the camp that believes that there is plenty of snake oil baloney out there conjured up by the ammo folks to sell "premium self defense" rounds... Hollow point rounds have been around a long time, you could even buy them when i started reloading in the seventies; and, yes, they were available for both pistol and rifle calibers... The fact is that there is nothin new under the sun; but lots of folks seem to be enamoured by these "advanced" bullets... As others have opined, the Glasser slug has been the only real breakthru in self-defense ammo...

 

The "new, improved hollowpoints are simply old wine in new bottles... The problem with hollow points is that they can mushroom too quickly and do the "flesh wound" thing... Ya simply cannot deliver "flesh wounds" and efficiently stop whatever varmint ya are shootin at; be it four legged or two legged...

 

 Michael Brown was shot 7 times if i remember right... He ran away from a cruiser, turned around, and almost made it back to the cruiser before he fell...   I'm willin to bet that he was shot with 40 caliber "magic bullet" hollowpoints...   

 

By the way, "all situations ain't different"... Sadly, they are all the same --- you are tryin to stop the threat...  That may mean quickly stopping folks that may be high on dope or just plain mean is serious business... At the end of the day, that's what this is all about... Here's hopin that no one has to face that terrible task.... 

 

Forgive us for being insensitive... We were, however, trying to be truthful...

 

leroy

 

Michael Brown... the lethal round was a head shot. Hard to do, but almost always instant gratification.

[TMF]

Michael Brown... the lethal round was a head shot. Hard to do, but almost always instant gratification.

Also, all those shots were made with only one functioning eye.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HvBikeWlTravel]

Well evidently I'm in the one man pup tent that says blood lose is NOT a fast enough way to kill a human. Shock and awe has been my experience with animals. Case in point. Uncle put 6 little bits of 22 lead in a groundhog from a 10/22. It was still moving for about 2 mins. About 40 mins later I squeezed off one round from a Browning BL-92 .44 Mag into a groundhog at greater distance. Dead before it hit the ground. Still had the clover in it's teeth. And I always held the notion that Humans are ridiculously easy to kill. But blood lose is not the quickest. Nor 2 holes. I believe there is a Dr. down in Florida that has done numerous studies of shooting victims. Seems he talked about the shock wave effect that can happen even if the heart is untouched. Heart muscles don't react favorably to massive shock waves.

I really find this amusing that there is so vehement display of animosity towards such an insignificant product. Nobody's holding a gun to anybody's head to try these. I just said, "I've never seen a bullet do that before"!  Play with what you want, load what works for you, and I'll do the same.

[jaysouth]

This is my favorite defensive round.  It is a wildcat that I developed by expanding a .40 S&W case to take a .45 cast bullet.

 

[HvBikeWlTravel]

This is my favorite defensive round.  It is a wildcat that I developed by expanding a .40 S&W case to take a .45 cast bullet.

 

2 phunny! If I thought you were serious, my question would be why start with an insufficient case(barely able to push a 165 gr projectile) when the .45 case design has worked for the last century?

[HvBikeWlTravel]

Second question. Is that case mouth split on the other side?

[HvBikeWlTravel]

 As others have opined, the Glasser slug has been the only real breakthru in self-defense ammo...

 

By the way, "all situations ain't different"... Sadly, they are all the same --- you are tryin to stop the threat...  That may mean quickly stopping folks that may be high on dope or just plain mean is serious business... At the end of the day, that's what this is all about... Here's hopin that no one has to face that terrible task.... 

 

Forgive us for being insensitive... We were, however, trying to be truthful...

 

leroy

Never used the Glaser "Safety" slug but I thought it worked on a similar principle of multiple projectiles and energy dispersing in a torso.

In fact, I didn't buy these Federals. They were thrown in to a whoppin' $5 deal I made. I generally create my own ammo. For the past 38 years. And I've had opportunity to test innumerable bullets and loads for "effectiveness". Obviously there are different opinions on what's "effective".

 

Now as to the "all situations the same" comment; if that's true, why do you need/have more than one Gun?

[Jonnin]

 

 Michael Brown was shot 7 times if i remember right... He ran away from a cruiser, turned around, and almost made it back to the cruiser before he fell...   I'm willin to bet that he was shot with 40 caliber "magic bullet" hollowpoints...   

 

 

 

4 in the arm.  1 on the tip top of the head is a graze.  Another in the arm's shoulder/muscle/pec area.  2 that both could be fatal.  One in the head that was clearly the fatal shot, and one in the throat that likely would have done him in eventually if it clipped the serious neck blood vessels.  That is unclear from the info we have, whether that one nicked or cut the jugular.    So 4/7 would not have stopped him even if they had been from an elephant rifle.  5 and possibly 6 would not have stopped him from most handguns.   

 

Looks like a convincing argument for shot placement to me.   Physics don't matter if you don't connect. 

 

The safety slug is innovative.  Its not a giant leap forward, but its not a pistol shotshell like we use on rats either.  

Edited October 24, 2014 by Jonnin

[jaysouth]

Second question. Is that case mouth split on the other side?

 

Nope, My grandson got a .40 hull mixed in the .45 cases.  Blue progressive didn't notice or care.  This might have some application if some master machinist like Caster could design a chamber to hold the cartridge.  On my prototype, you have to elevate the barrel to keep the cartridge in the chamber.  Definately not good for shooting snakes.  Maybe a revolver?

[leroy]

Never used the Glaser "Safety" slug but I thought it worked on a similar principle of multiple projectiles and energy dispersing in a torso.

In fact, I didn't buy these Federals. They were thrown in to a whoppin' $5 deal I made. I generally create my own ammo. For the past 38 years. And I've had opportunity to test innumerable bullets and loads for "effectiveness". Obviously there are different opinions on what's "effective".

 

Now as to the "all situations the same" comment; if that's true, why do you need/have more than one Gun?

Bike... i couldnt help but notice ya may be a bit miffed... Ya shouldn't be that way; no one here meant to hurt your feelings... You asked a question and got an answer that evidently hurt your feelings... That shouldn't be; because it wasn't meant to be...

 

As to the "all situations are the same" comment; don't take it out of context... The situation is that you are trying to stop a threat quickly; the discussion is how to do it the best... That is, in fact, the situation in every defensive situation...

 

As to the "one gun question"; i (...and others here, i would bet...) have got all kinds... I've spent lots of time burning powder thru rifles, shotguns, and mostly big bore revolvers; and have spent a bit of time experimenting myself... I'm a relatively old geezer and I figure i've burned powder into the 10 thousands, if not hundred thousands of rounds thru some pretty serious ordinance over the last 45 years or so... 

 

You are free to believe and do whatever you want concerning your choices, and so am i.... You load your smoke pole the way you want, and i'll do mine the same; but don't get bent because I, or others, don't happen to agree with your methods...

 

Let's agree to disagree on this; and join in the sincere hope than none here have to find out first hand how this shootin another human thing works...

 

leroy

Edited October 24, 2014 by leroy

[HvBikeWlTravel]

Bike... i couldnt help but notice ya may be a bit miffed... Ya shouldn't be that way; no one here meant to hurt your feelings... You asked a question and got an answer that evidently hurt your feelings... That shouldn't be; because it wasn't meant to be...

 

As to the "all situations are the same" comment; don't take it out of context... The situation is that you are trying to stop a threat quickly; the discussion is how to do it the best... That is, in fact, the situation in every defensive situation...

 

As to the "one gun question"; i (...and others here, i would bet...) have got all kinds... I've spent lots of time burning powder thru rifles, shotguns, and mostly big bore revolvers; and have spent a bit of time experimenting myself... I'm a relatively old geezer and I figure i've burned powder into the 10 thousands, if not hundred thousands of rounds thru some pretty serious ordinance over the last 45 years or so... 

 

You are free to believe and do whatever you want concerning your choices, and so am i.... You load your smoke pole the way you want, and i'll do mine the same; but don't get bent because I, or others, don't happen to agree with your methods...

 

Let's agree to disagree on this; and join in the sincere hope than none here have to find out first hand how this shootin another human thing works...

 

leroy

Fair enough.

 I as well hope to never pull the trigger on a fellow human.

Happy shootin'.