School me on J-Frames

[maroonandwhite]

I recently decided I am not happy with my little .380's as a pocket pistol for myself and purse pistol for my wife. I will be looking to get a J-Frame or two this Christmas and was overwhelmed by all of the different models S&W offer. I would want one with a shrouded hammer but past that I just want the lightest and smallest for myself and whatever would be comfortable for my wife and still fit in a purse pocket. I have read they are making them without the internal lock now so that's a plus. Any information that would help me decide would be appreciated.

 

Also I prefer not to look at the LCR's I have heard they have great triggers but I'd prefer to have all metal even if it has to be an air weight.

[JAB]

I also used to mainly carry a .380 - a Kel Tec P3AT - when pocket carry was the order of the day.  The thing is, I bought it brand new as a first generation but had it a few years before I got my HCP.  Once I got ready to carry, I could never get it to be reliable.  I sent it back to Kel Tec (where the customer service is awesome.)  By then the second generation was out and they pretty much built me a brand new, second gen pistol on my original frame.  It has been 100% reliable ever since and I actually shoot it pretty well but the whole experience - and reading others' experiences with various .380 pocket rockets - made me realize that even in .380 these small, lightweight pistols are riding the ragged edge for reliability and function.  That is why I would never even bother with such a small gun in 9mm.

 

Anyhow, I kept the P3AT but added a S&W 642.  I simply believe that - in such small packages in anything above .32acp - small, light revolvers are and likely will always be more reliable than small, light semiautos.  The 642 has become my most carried gun - usually in a pocket but sometimes OWB (as it still conceals easily.)  I replaced the factory grips with Pachmayr Compacs that cover the backstrap and give a little more to hold on to which made a world of difference it shootability and my accuracy with it.  I usually carry a speed strip in the watch pocket of my pants in case I have a need/opportunity for a reload.

 

The 642 has an internal hammer rather than a shrouded hammer.  That means it doesn't have the 'humpback' look of shrouded hammer versions but also means that it is DAO with no option for manually cocking the hammer.  For a revolver doing mostly pocket duty I think that is the way to go.  A model with a regular, non-shrouded hammer would be likely to snag, I would think, and I would also be concerned about the possibility of pocket lint and other debris getting into the gun through the channel that the hammer 'switch' rides in with a shrouded hammer version.  I've looked at a shrouded hammer version and think that it would be awkward to cock or decock under stress.  Besides, for up close SD you probably aren't going to be shooting in anything but double action, anyhow.

 

I would still advise that, if possible, you keep the little .380 around.  I find that there are occasions, although rare, where the thin/flat nature of the P3AT allows me to carry it in situations where the 642 wouldn't work as well or maybe not at all.

Edited October 16, 2014 by JAB

[JeffL]

Just sold the lady's 637. She took it to the range 3 or 4 times and always ended up with a sore hand, most of the time with broken skin. She carries a Ruger LC9 now. I prefer my Kahr CM9. Both have been 100% reliable.

Edited October 16, 2014 by JeffL

[leroy]

maroon... We are "j" frame junkies, and always keep several around... The lightest, smallest, internal hammer "no snag" in the S&W line is the model 442... We've got one and it has (...as most all j frames have...) a heavy trigger pull... The reason for this appears to be that the "j' frame is just "small" and the lever arms in the trigger system are smaller than their bigger brothers; plus the "j" frames use a wound hammer spring...

 

The good news is that any of your ole buddies that are S&W gunsmiths can fix this in short order... There are some trigger kits that will lighten the trigger pull on the double action (...the only way ya can shoot a 442...)... I always have one of my buddies do a trigger job on every "j" frame we get...

 

I always keep an all steel variant of the "j" frames around as well.... Our latest one is a model 36 with a 2 inch barrel and a round butt... My hands are a bit meaty, and i always put some sort of compac grip on these little beasts...

 

I always load my "j" frames with a plus "p" 158 grain lead semiwadcutter load... 

 

Revolvers of late have fell out of favor with many "gun know it alls"; principally because of the round capacity (...5 rounds in the "j" frame...), but they are a great thing... A revolver is extremely reliable and the operational characteristics are intuitively obvious... The only down side is the width of the cylinder; but that ain't a big deal with the right holster... I've front pocket carried them in a good holster, hip pocket carried them (...my favorite with carhartt dungarees...), and carried them in a jacket pocket... It all works like a charm...

 

As i remember, the 442 weighs 15 ounces and the model 36 weighs 19.5 ounces...   They have been around as "j' frames since the early 1950's and as the older "I" frame before then (...abeit in a 38 S&W and 32 long calibers...)... They were, in fact, the "standard" for small, powerful hideout handguns within the LEO and "outlaw" communities... You are well armed if you can use a "j" frame smith double action with a reasonable load...

 

As you can tell, i like 'em a lot....

 

leroy

[maroonandwhite]

Ok. The shrouded hammer vs. internal hammer was something I didn't know. Luckily the 442 and/or 642 was what I had my eye on. I'm guessing the finish is the only difference in the two?

[Randall53]

I have a 442 and I really like it. I bought it from Buds and was able to get one without the internal lock. I have no kids and since I have a couple more pistols with no locks I didn't want to start with that one.  It shoots the +P's real well and is pretty accurate at pistol distances. No hammer to snag. I've put maybe 300 rounds through it and have never had any issues.

[dcloudy777]

Ok. The shrouded hammer vs. internal hammer was something I didn't know. Luckily the 442 and/or 642 was what I had my eye on. I'm guessing the finish is the only difference in the two?

 

Yep.  Same gun, different colors... just buy the one you like.  Or both.

[maroonandwhite]

Yep.  Same gun, different colors... just buy the one you like.  Or both.

See if I buy two though I have to get the same color. If not inevitably my wife will want the one I like.  :pleased:

 

I have a good excuse to go to the range now and rent a couple. One last trip to the range before we move out to the country and I can shoot all I want!!!

[DMark]

I prefer a M37 Airweight with a bobbed hammer that lets me get a grip high up on the backstrap.  The shrouded frame of the M442 won't allow as high a grip which IMHO is key to shooting a J Frame.

 

My carry load is Buffalo Bore 158g Lead Semi-Wadcutter Hollow Point.

 

 

This M37 is my everyday BUG carried in a DeSantis Apache ankle holster.

[TNWNGR]

The 442 J-frame is hard to beat but eve better when coupled with a M-36 or M-60.

[leroy]

The 442 J-frame is hard to beat but eve better when coupled with a M-36 or M-60.

 

The famous "New York" reload....

 

leroy

[Trekbike]

Yep. Same gun, different colors... just buy the one you like. Or both.

Not meant to nit pick but that's not entirely true. The 642 has a stainless steel cylinder, the 442 doesn't.

[doughnut]

I'm also a j-frame fan. I have a 442 w/out the lock. I would highly suggest the Apex j-frame trigger kit, it's cheap and makes a world of difference in the revolver's trigger. Makes the DA pull lighter, smoother and is an easy install. My j-frame has become something I always carry like my wallet or pocket knife. In conjunction to a great carry gun it's proven a useful training tool. The use of the heavier trigger in the j-frame has translated over to improving my trigger control. I also find the j-frame fun to shoot. It loves 148gr. Wadcutters! I generally carry 135gr. +P Gold Dots in it, when I can find them.

[daddyo]

S&W 442/642. There really isn't much else to say.

[Patton]

Shrouded hammers seem like a great idea but they are not. Stick with the centennials which are also known as the 40/42/642/442/640/340/342/940. Titanium and scandium models hurt no matter what caliber; Airweights are not pleasant to shoot necessarily. A ~20oz model 60 is about my favorite to shoot and carry. I once had the highly demanded 640 no dash which is the best j frame ever made, but sold it to get other things.

You should read this article http://www.snubnose.info/docs/m640.htm

[ncomarc]

I've bought/sold/traded numerous semi-autos but always seem to keep every revolver I've gotten. My sisters first handgun was my Taurus revolver and my wife a 442. Could you gentlemen recommend a YouTube video or link that shows how to clean a revolver above field cleaning or ones that shows a trigger job? I've seen a few but don't know what right looks like so I've always stuck with the basics. Thanks in advance.

[Patton]

There really is not a need to take a revolver apart for cleaning unless there is something wrong with it. I do not even remove the crane unless it is one that has been shot thousands of times and very old. I for sure would not do it to a classic piece.

[Oh Shoot]

I prefer a M37 Airweight with a bobbed hammer that lets me get a grip high up on the backstrap.  The shrouded frame of the M442 won't allow as high a grip which IMHO is key to shooting a J Frame.

 

My carry load is Buffalo Bore 158g Lead Semi-Wadcutter Hollow Point.

 

 

This M37 is my everyday BUG carried in a DeSantis Apache ankle holster.

 

Is that some discontinued model?

 

- OS

[DMark]

Is that some discontinued model?

 

- OS

 

Its of 1967 vintage. 

[Oh Shoot]

Its of 1967 vintage. 

 

Pretty sure it was, but didn't know that long ago. Kinda hard for a new prospective J frame purchaser to grab one, though. ;)

 

- OS

[DMark]

Pretty sure it was, but didn't know that long ago. Kinda hard for a new prospective J frame purchaser to grab one, though. ;)

 

- OS

 

True.  Heck even the action-job on that Airweight is over 20 years old.

 

However, S&W didn't drop the M37 from its catalog until 2006. They're out there if the OP wishes to find one. 

[maroonandwhite]

Man I have revolver fever now. Can't wait to get my hands on a 642. Only revolver I ever owned was a security six and I hate that I got rid of it.

[maroonandwhite]

Well I ended up getting a model 637. I got a deal I couldn't pass up. If I don't like the hammer on it I guess I can always get it cut off....or just buy another one haha. Can you buy replacement hammers from the factory already cut and just change them out?

[Patton]

Well I ended up getting a model 637. I got a deal I couldn't pass up. If I don't like the hammer on it I guess I can always get it cut off....or just buy another one haha. Can you buy replacement hammers from the factory already cut and just change them out?

I see no need in bobbing hammers; they can be benificial for more than just s/a shooting. My grandfather showed me how to draw from the pocket to where it will never be an issue. If you will tuck the edge of your thumb under the trigger it will never snag pulling from the pocket. All you have to do is practice it a few times. If you ever decide to belt carry the hammer will be helpful for retention with a thumb-strap.

[Oh Shoot]

I see no need in bobbing hammers; they can be benificial for more than just s/a shooting. My grandfather showed me how to draw from the pocket to where it will never be an issue. If you will tuck the edge of your thumb under the trigger it will never snag pulling from the pocket. All you have to do is practice it a few times. If you ever decide to belt carry the hammer will be helpful for retention with a thumb-strap.

 

Yeah, I've got a 637. Though I don't carry it, practiced from the pocket, no prob, thumb over or under hammer, no snag.

 

I also have a Ruger SP101 DAO, and in retrospect,  wish I had gotten the hammer version.

 

- OS

Edited October 18, 2014 by Oh Shoot