Looks like 41p is going to go into effect for trusts

[Dolomite_supafly]

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?158359-ATF-Form-23-CLEO-for-Trusts-and-Corps

 

They would not be producing these forms if it is not going to be going into effect. Now is the time to put things into a trust because as soon as this becomes a requirement the trust will take over a year as opposed to the 20 days it is taking now.

 

So anytime you submit you will have to get new fingerprint cards, new photographs and everything else like filing as an individual even if you are already on the trust and previously approved. Also it must be done for each trustee for each new item. That would be insane to buy a single suppressor then have to submit 10 sets for forms for your 10 trustees. Talk about extending the time it will take to get approved. Doing a background on a person takes over a year now, imagine the time it will take if you have 5 trustees.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Dolomite_supafly

[leftyk82]

WOW, i had no idea.

 

just read the thread above, scary stuff for trusts.

[btq96r]

My memory is fuzzy today for some reason (I blame the weather), but wasn't this brought up a bit ago with nothing happening?  The drumbeat of the scare must be a windfall for NFA item retailers.

 

For my trust, I only have myself as a trustee, then a beneficiary if I get hit by a bus.  Anyone else is listed on the "authorized to use trust property equipment" paperwork.  I'm ASSuming I would be the only one who still needs to do any extra paperwork under this new rule, should it go into effect.

Edited October 10, 2014 by btq96r

[Dolomite_supafly]

My memory is fuzzy today for some reason (I blame the weather), but wasn't this brought up a bit ago with nothing happening?  The drumbeat of the scare must be a windfall for NFA item retailers.

 

For my trust, I only have myself as a trustee, then a beneficiary if I get hit by a bus.  Anyone else is listed on the "authorized to use trust property equipment" paperwork.  I'm ASSuming I would be the only one who still needs to do any extra paperwork under this new rule, should it go into effect.

That is correct but I have several trustees listed, some not even in this state, who will have to fill out and submit this paperwork if I ever add another item to the trust after this goes into effect.

[fstbk65]

Crap! I just got my trust drafted. It isn't even signed yet. Better get to buying.

[Dolomite_supafly]

If all you have is one trust it isn't that bad but for those that have more than one it can be a pain. I am removing my son from the trust for the moment. He is in the military and getting his Provost Marshal to sign off might be a bit problematic considering they cannot even have privately owned weapons on base.

 

The incentives to have a trust are about to go down the drain. After this no more 20 day approvals, no more anonymous users.

 

I have a couple more I have to submit before December. I am hoping to get at least four more items submitted before years end. I am so torn, I want to buy a lot more ammo and survival crap to get ready for what is probably about to kick off.

[fstbk65]

I hear you. I have been looking at several suppressors and my MKE to SBR since yesterday. Maybe even SBR an AR although I don't really see the need right now with the Tavor I have. But I'm thinking long term I guess.

[Wingshooter]

I want to get my first suppressor soon for a 300BO pistol that I want to eventuality sbr. I've been dragging my feet but I guess I should make it happen soon. I need to start reading and educating myself on the process and deciding on the can I want for a 8.5" AR

[jacob]

Glad I am getting my trust setup today...but seems like it really wont be as much benefit as I initially thought...

[midtennchip]

Maybe someone more tech-savvy than me can check this, but my sources say this draft was created in August of last year, shortly before the time the Proposed Regulations were published (Sept. 9, 2013). I suspect someone who knows how to do it could check the metadata of the PDF posted on the Fed website. But in any event, I know there has been a draft of this form since at least August of 2013. Edited October 16, 2014 by midtennchip

[Capbyrd]

FEAR MONGERING!   


Do not buy into this 100 percent.  Chip is right.  The draft has been around for a while and it was one of many proposed forms.  This is NOT to be taken as evidence that 41P will be adopted.  I'm not saying that it can't or won't be but this form is proof of nothing.  

 

Its a government agency.  You don't think they would produce dozens of different drafts for something that they are thinking about doing before implementing anything?  


This is a much ado about nothing deal and should not be taken seriously yet.  

[Dolomite_supafly]

FEAR MONGERING!


Do not buy into this 100 percent. Chip is right. The draft has been around for a while and it was one of many proposed forms. This is NOT to be taken as evidence that 41P will be adopted. I'm not saying that it can't or won't be but this form is proof of nothing.

Its a government agency. You don't think they would produce dozens of different drafts for something that they are thinking about doing before implementing anything?


This is a much ado about nothing deal and should not be taken seriously yet.

I hope you are right.

But I am planning and submitting anything and everything I can as soon as possible.

What is wrong with being concerned? Better to act before than to wish you had after.

[Capbyrd]

What is wrong with being concerned? Nothing. You absolutely should be concerned.

But you sell yourself as having the inside scoop on everything with your "I talked to so and so..." and "I'll make a call and find out..." and people respect you as a "subject matter expert." So you saying that this looks like it's going to happen makes people think it's a done deal. It's not. You put this out there without also adding in all the other available info. As a "SME," you have to remember that people will blindly follow your every command and take your word as fact.

But these types of posts and scare tactics have driven ammo prices to double in the last 6 years and in some cases, ammo is still hard to find. At least the AR market self corrected but ammo probably never will.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Your right, nothing to see here folks. No need for concern. Move along to the next topic.

 

As far as the ammo prices there is a lot more than fear driving prices up or creating the scarcity. Plenty of new shooters in the market now that weren't here before, which is a great thing. I would gladly take an ammo shortage because all the new gun owners are on our side and the more gun owners we have the better off we are. And along with all those new gun purchases, which we have been hearing about, is a need for ammo. I am sure fear has something to do with it but I believe it is a very, very small amount of what is actually causing the shortage. Gun prices have been dropping steadily for some time now and people who were not able to afford a gun are able to buy one, this is what is creating the shortage of ammunition and not fear. All you have to do is look at the gun sales in the last 6 years to realize that the ammo shortage is from all those extra guns being sold. So the shortage is probably from people trying to feed their recently bought gun and not to stock pile ammunition over fear.

 

Prices will never be what they were 5 years ago because the cost of materials has gone up, not because of fears. Same reason why cars have increased in price, that is unless there is fear over a looming automobile crisis I am unaware of. There is also the fact distributors now know what the market will bear and have raised their prices to increase their profits. Same thing happened with a lot of things in the past few years, not just ammunition.

 

I don't sell myself as having the inside scoop to everything, never have, but I have thrown out a warning from time to time and sometimes I am right and sometimes I am wrong. One of my goals here is to help people, by keeping them aware, and if this warning helps someone to avoid the additional burden that is 41p by applying now rather than later then I have helped them. And if 41p never comes to pass then no harm done by applying for that NFA item now but if it does, and no warnings were given, a lot of people would be wishing they had been warned. And even if there was some fear mongering involved there is no way there would be a run on NFA items like we are seeing with ammunition and to compare the two is like comparing apples to donkeys.

 

Also, if someone has a question I don't mind calling because I am one of the people who can apparently call the ATF without having his dog shot or house raided. BTW, anyone can contact the ATF with their questions, I am not some sort of super secret gateway people must go through to contact the ATF. Yes, I contact the ATF at least every other week and write at least three times a year so I don't mind asking questions for people when I am on the phone.