7.62x39 accuracy problems

[Dolomite_supafly]

I have posted before about it like 2-3 years ago. I was hoping Wolf would have figured it out by now but I guess not. I have some current production Wolf 7.62x39 and the bullets still measure .308", not .311" like it should be. I even had one measure .307". This is probably why most people say their AKs are inaccurate but it is not the AK, the design or even the shooter. It is the bullets we have here.

 

Shooting correct ammo I had some Afghans who could hit man sized targets 7 out of 10 times at 350 yards using a well worn AK.

 

I really with there was some correct ammo that is not super expensive.

 

I might actually pull the bullets and reload the steel cases with other surplus .311" bullets or maybe some cast, powder coated bullets.

 

I can at least use the Wolf bullets for the 300 Blackout.

[gregintenn]

Why not shoot military surplus ammo?

 

I imagine the new manufactured commercial ammo is loaded with .308 bullets because, if I'm not mistaken, newly manufactured rifles such as Ruger Mini 30, Interarms Mini Mauser, etc. will have a .308 bore. I don't know how much extra pressure .003" in bullet diameter would cause, but I think it could possible cause a problem.

 

What I wish is that there was a readily available source for inexpensive brass for this caliber.

 

I have some Norinco ammo, and thought I've never measured a bullet, I can attest to it's stellar accuracy; at least in an SKS. I don't recall firing any in an AK. Like you said, however, it has gotten expensive enough that I hate to shoot much of what I have left.

Edited October 4, 2014 by gregintenn

[Dolomite_supafly]

Source for surplus 7.62x39?

[Oh Shoot]

Why not shoot military surplus ammo? ...

 

Because there's no source for it?

 

(edit: great minds think simultaneously) ;)

 

- OS

Edited October 4, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[AMSting]

Wideners has Yugo surplus again, but it is $300/ 1260 rounds now.  It was less than $200.

[Clod Stomper]

Not sure about the new commercial ammo, but the old stuff (American) had .308" bullets. Shot some Remington(?) in my SKS back in the '90s and they would keyhole.

IIRC, only the first Mini-30s had a .308 bore. They were soon changed to a .310-.311" bore.

I've pulled bullets from a few types of 7.62x39. Some old and some new. Don't recall which was which, but some was actually .308", like Dolomite described. Others were proper size. Edited October 4, 2014 by Clod Stomper

[Clod Stomper]

Wideners has Yugo surplus again, but it is $300/ 1260 rounds now.  It was less than $200.

 

Good stuff.  Especially when it was cheap.  

 

Is a bit corrosive, though.  But not bad.  Never had a problem with my stainless Mini-30.

[gregintenn]

Source for surplus 7.62x39?

 

          http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=444870910

          http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=444870910

          http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=443445133

Wow! It ain't a dime a pop anymore, huh? :stare: I didn't realize it was that high now.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Yeah, $700 a case is way too much for me. Another issue is I hate cleaning my guns so I would never knowingly buy corrosive.

 

At this point loading my own powder coated cast bullets into the Wolf cases seems like the best option.

[Jamie Jackson]

I just looked in my old handloading records and see that back in 1991 (yeah..I'm old LOL) I loaded Hornady 123 gr SP (.310) over some 3031 and got some 1-1.5 inch 100 yd groups out of a Norinco AK I had. Iron sight and sandbag rests...with much better eyesight I might add.

 

We were actually discussing casting and PC some 7.62x39 a couple of days ago. I haven't considered pulling and reusing Wolf cases. It's the cost of 7.62x39 brass that's been a concern. This sounds like a viable option.

 

Gordon...dumb question maybe...but would you work up a load using your own rifle powders, or save the Wolf powders and work up a load using that saved powder?

We are challenged in finding rifle powder. I've had some on backorder since December 2013...

[Clod Stomper]

We were actually discussing casting and PC some 7.62x39 a couple of days ago. I haven't considered pulling and reusing Wolf cases. It's the cost of 7.62x39 brass that's been a concern. This sounds like a viable option.

Gordon...dumb question maybe...but would you work up a load using your own rifle powders, or save the Wolf powders and work up a load using that saved powder?
We are challenged in finding rifle powder. I've had some on backorder since December 2013...

I bet the .300 Blk bullet that Dolomite made would work pretty well in that application. After it's powdercoated, the diameter should be enough to size back down to .311.

I've pulled bullets from steel cases in order to use the cases. If the bullet weights are similar, I do what he said, average the weights and use that. Or if I'm in a hurry, just pull the bullets and reseat a new one.

[gregintenn]

China made the best AK ammo. It's a shame it isn't still available. I don't think you'll be able to get the cheap Russian stuff much longer either. Surely someone will pick up the slack, and make some cheap stuff. I'm with Gordon; how much more could it cost to make it with the correct bullet diameter?

 

What diameter bullets do American manufacturers such as Winchester, Remington, Hornady, etc. use? They sure charge plenty for it, if you can actually find it.

Edited October 4, 2014 by gregintenn

[BigK]

I've had decent luck with this stuff out of my Saiga 7.62. It's pretty cheap too. I read a lot of reviews before I bought some and it's not match grade, but it shoots minute of my ability.

http://www.sgammo.com/product/golden-tiger/1000-round-case-762x39-fmj-bt-golden-tiger-124-grain-russian-ammo-limit-2-custo

[Dolomite_supafly]

Yeah, my caliper wasn't as zeroed as well as I had thought. I went back with a more precise caliper, capable of .0001" and they are measureing ~.3100"-.3105".

 

So I guess I screwed the pooch on this one.

[Clod Stomper]

Maybe not. I double checked some of my pulled bullets and they were indeed .308 after I scraped off the tar sealant.

I don't remember what rounds I pulled them from.

I have had some Russian that was .310, too. Seems to be a crap shoot.

I used them to make some blasting ammo for my .300 BLK. Edited October 4, 2014 by Clod Stomper

[Clod Stomper]

China made the best AK ammo. It's a shame it isn't still available. I don't think you'll be able to get the cheap Russian stuff much longer either. Surely someone will pick up the slack, and make some cheap stuff. I'm with Gordon; how much more could it cost to make it with the correct bullet diameter?

What diameter bullets do American manufacturers such as Winchester, Remington, Hornady, etc. use? They sure charge plenty for it, if you can actually find it.

I THINK that now they use .310-.311 bullets. I do know that in the '90s they used .308 bullets. I may still have some of those rounds if I can find them. They would keyhole from my SKS so I measured them.

[gregintenn]

I'm not getting benchrest accuracy from Wolf ammo, but I've found it reasonably accurate and haven't seen any keyholes. For .25 per round or less, I just live with it.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I am getting my Wolf 7.62x39 for $218/1,000 shipped. I will be ordering a case a month for the foreseeable future. The only other ammo I will be buying is self defense ammo.

[gregintenn]

I bought a case of the Wolf recently as well. At that price, I just can't justify reloading it. I wish 223/556 would get back down to that threshold. I'm still loading it.

[R1100R]

I am getting my Wolf 7.62x39 for $218/1,000 shipped. I will be ordering a case a month for the foreseeable future. The only other ammo I will be buying is self defense ammo.

 

 

Wher are you getting this deal?

[Dolomite_supafly]

Wher are you getting this deal?

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/81147-post-your-762x39-ammunition-deals-here/#entry1184740

[Oh Shoot]

I bought a case of the Wolf recently as well. At that price, I just can't justify reloading it. I wish 223/556 would get back down to that threshold. I'm still loading it.

 

The Russian is purt close a lot of time, within a couple cents a round. I've bought a good bit over the last year at under .25/round in hand.

 

- OS

Edited October 4, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[Jamie Jackson]

I actually did use the Wolf powder the last time I tore some of them down. I averaged 10 powder charges and used that when I reloaded them. BTW, I had to tear down 40 bullets to get 5 bullets that weighed the same. I loaded those 5 back using their powder, that I weighed, and shot them out of a purpose built 7.62x39 bolt gun with a 308 bore. It shot extremely well at 100 yards using their bullets, powder and primed case but only when the bullets and powder were matched.

 

 

I bet the .300 Blk bullet that Dolomite made would work pretty well in that application. After it's powdercoated, the diameter should be enough to size back down to .311.

I've pulled bullets from steel cases in order to use the cases. If the bullet weights are similar, I do what he said, average the weights and use that. Or if I'm in a hurry, just pull the bullets and reseat a new one.

 

 

 

Great info and tips guys. Thank you. :up:

 

 

I'll pull down some Wolf rounds today and mic & measure (powder and bullets) and see what they look like.

 

Powder coating and resizing makes sense to me.

 

 

 

Any recommendations on dies? The few I've looked at drop at or smaller than .309...

[Reloader762]

I've been reloading 7.62 x 39 for over ten years now with pretty good success.  At first all I loaded was various jacketed bullets in the .310 to .311 range both US and foreign made projectiles,Hornady,Sierra,Speer,Prvi Partizan as well as some surplus pulled bullets form 54r LB and HB ammo.  Later on I added cast lead and now powder coated cast lead.

 

Most of the commercial made ammo both steel case as well as US and Foreign made ammo does not shoot that accurately in 7.62 x 39 platforms.  I tested a lot of differnt brands of ammo in my SKS rifles and found Golden Tiger to be the most consistian of the steel case ammo.  All the rest is good for plinking and some hunting applications but it's not the most accurate unless your piticular rifle likes it.   Not until I started reloading for the X39 did I find reliable and consistant accuracy shot to shot.

 

Both my SKS rifles have .312" groove bores,contrary to popular belief the .310" dia. jackated bullets in the 120+ gr. range proved to be the most accurate in both my rifles while the .311" bullets in the 150 gr. range opened up a bit but were sill good for most applications where a heavier bullet was desired for close range bush busting. For powder I like Reloader #7 it works well with all bullet weight ranges as well as cast lead.  If I find a SKS or AK that want cycle with Alliant 2400 which is my preferrred powder for cast lead loads in the X39 cartridge.

 

Years ago I did a few pulldown test with various steel case x39 ammo,it did improve it some but not enough to justify the effort.  The main problem with the majority of the steel case ammo is just inconsistant bullets and no amount of effort is going to fix that unless you just replace the bullet,the same problem is also found in 54r ammo.  As far as Wolf ammo goes I had problems with that brand of ammo ten years ago and just never bought it again.  Wolf is just an importer out of CA they mfg. nothing and it's hard to keep up with who is making there current batch of ammo.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Reloader762