+P in an older all metal handgun?

[Steelharp]

Need some input from experts. Received 4 older 9mm STAR Model Super B's. Don't know how to date them, because they don't have any symbol markings, just serial numbers.

 

Would they be able to handle +P defensive ammo, NOT on any kind of regular basis, just to be ready to use in a defensive situation? Or should they be kept as strictly ball ammo range toys?

[glock55]

http://star-firearms.com Try this site. Hope it helps

[Jonnin]

it should be fine.   Check available info but most guns are built not on the redline but above and beyond --- just standard engineering practice is to give some room in the hardware to accept some stress.   What that means is the gun is not just barely capable of firing standard ammo but actually much tougher than that in case you get a slightly hot load that is out of spec.   Most guns are also fired with a proof load that is a +P round, sometimes even more than +P (when testing +p guns they use an even hotter round).  

 

So, the bottom line is that it *should* be "OK" for "A few" rounds of +p ammo should you ever have to actually use the weapon in self defense, which should be an infrequent happening.  

 

They also make 9mm standard pressure defense ammo.  You could use that, and its still much, much more potent than a 380 and more than adequate for defense.

[Steelharp]

glock55, so this is the proper category. Pretty wide range from 1946 to 83: 

Model B-Super

Made from 1946 to the end of classic-model production in 1983, model Bs with Super upgrades were produced. The major change is the replacement of the swinging link with a Sig 210 (or modern Star) style closed cam path integral to the barrel. Related to this, a full-length guide rod with captive spring, and a quick takedown lever were added as well. All of these models have a magazine safety, but one slightly different from the later S variants, and the extractor is modified to double as a loaded-chamber indicator. Additionally, the sights are improved in shape to make them easier to see, and minor changes were made to the trigger system.

[Steelharp]

Jonnin, apparently whatever round is used, it needs to be shaped like ball ammo. I tried to hand cycle some Hornady Critical Defense; slide won't go home. Too pointed. Tried some Golden Sabre (+P), and it hand fed just fine.

What standard pressure defense loads with a ball type shape are available? Do you know, offhand?

[dcloudy777]

Wolff offers an extra power recoil spring for the 9mm Largo version of the Star B... 9mm Largo is pretty darn hot, you should be good to go.

 

http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%20Pistols/STAR/A,%20B,%20M,%20SUPER,%20%26%20VARIANTS%209mm%20LARGO/cID1/mID61/dID276

 

I'd try and find a stronger mainspring as well... (those guns might use 1911 mainsprings, I don't know).

Edited October 3, 2014 by dcloudy777

[Steelharp]

Wel, they're not mine. So I won't be changing anything. I think the lack of feed ramp is the biggest issue. It's just kinda, "hello, barrel here" at the top of the mag. No problem with ball stuff.

[Guest kingarmory]

It'll need a feed ramp job in order to feed HP ammo, a lot of Stars have a short ramp just for ball ammo.

[Jonnin]

Jonnin, apparently whatever round is used, it needs to be shaped like ball ammo. I tried to hand cycle some Hornady Critical Defense; slide won't go home. Too pointed. Tried some Golden Sabre (+P), and it hand fed just fine.

What standard pressure defense loads with a ball type shape are available? Do you know, offhand?

 

 

stuff like http://www.luckygunner.com/9mm-115-grain-jhp-federal-classic-personal-defense-50-rounds

might work.  It is somewhat conical but you still have a hollow point.  You cant have a hollow point and not have a hollow point.

 

or

http://www.luckygunner.com/9mm-124-gr-sp-sellier-and-bellot-50-rounds

 

or the like.  Its out there, just gotta look around.  I don't know what a soft point does in a defense shooting; most of it is made for expansion going longways thru game, but its gonna do more than a FMJ ball.  

Edited October 3, 2014 by Jonnin

[Steelharp]

The Golden Sabre is ball shaped, so it had no issue. I was just concerned about the +P part.

 

AND, this is just hand feeding, NOT firing.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Steelharp

[Steelharp]

So, Federal makes it. Great, thanks.

 

Just trying to educate myself for buyers; I know SOMEone will ask about using them for defense...

[Jonnin]

So, Federal makes it. Great, thanks.

 

Just trying to educate myself for buyers; I know SOMEone will ask about using them for defense...

 

I forgot you were a seller.   It would be a good CYA to NOT recommend +P ammo for them in your situation.  I can't see the guns ever failing but people are idiots in general and odds are if you said it was OK someone would cram 50 boxes in one and break something (its harder on the guns, period, and in the best case it accelerates the speed of wear-out and chances of breaking things).

 

And that means you can't roll your own either.   So, um either buy some to sell if you sell ammo or mention a brand or two as I did and tell them "its out there, go figure it out for yourself".

 

I would answer the question of self defense.... "its an antique.  It will work, but its not your best choice; its more of a collector's item and target pistol.  If you really want it for self defense, you can use blah blah ammo in it but let me show you this RIA 9mm 1911...   ". 

Edited October 3, 2014 by Jonnin

[Joe357]

Mike,
If I were you I would not tell anyone they are rated or could handle +P ammo since you are selling them in the store. If someone uses +P ammo and something goes wrong you and the store owners could be liable. Jmho

[TrickyNicky]

If they're anything like my star model B they aren't reliable enough for defense period. Mine is one that was built around the Largo9mm and later converted to 9mmLuger. I don't know if the super models have any if the same issue or not, no idea. I can tell you that manually cycling mine is more reliable than actually firing it, crazy as it sounds. After reading a link Dolomite sent me I've determined mine needs too much money to be anything but a neat old gun in the safe that gets taken out once a year, cussed at for not working, cleaned, admired, and back in the safe. It's a sweet shooter when it does work though.

[hipower]

If they're anything like my star model B they aren't reliable enough for defense period. Mine is one that was built around the Largo9mm and later converted to 9mmLuger. I don't know if the super models have any if the same issue or not, no idea. I can tell you that manually cycling mine is more reliable than actually firing it, crazy as it sounds. After reading a link Dolomite sent me I've determined mine needs too much money to be anything but a neat old gun in the safe that gets taken out once a year, cussed at for not working, cleaned, admired, and back in the safe. It's a sweet shooter when it does work though.

 

And this is why I've avoided getting one. I see one every so often and start to look seriously at it...then remember all I've been told from several owners. Maybe not a valid enough reason, but...

[gregintenn]

Whatcha askin fer em?

[glock55]

This is from the above link on the information tab: Ammunition for Modern Firearms
Modern Star pistols are all very strong. The 9 mm Parabellum handguns are specifically designed to handle +P loadings. Most of these guns only shoot commom, modern ammunition. The warnings above regarding the power of 9 mm Largo do not apply, as B and Super B pistols can safely fire more powerful ammunition. However, there are still a few pitfalls. Make sure any used gun is in good condition still. The best is to have a gunsmith look it over as though its an old gun. You never know what may have happened to it before you got ahold of it. Also, lots of the B-series especially have been rechambered. Do not take the word of any markings on the slide of the pistol. The barrel may be chambered for a different cartridge, and this could cause dangerous issues. Also, be aware that much of the cheaper 9 mm Largo ammunition available is old surplus, so corrosive. Either do not shoot it, or you will have to carefully clean your barrel after each firing with a corrosive-residue remover; normal cleaning is not enough to protect your barrel.

[gregintenn]

If it'll feed into the chamber, I expect the old Star will fire it without incident (reloads of dubious origin notwithstanding).

Edited October 3, 2014 by gregintenn

[TNWNGR]

Star Model B's are a good C&R acquisition but I wouldn't want one for regular shooting or as an addition to a defensive gun battery. As for shooting +p through them, don't, and for darn sure don't recommend such to a friend or individual you sell a non +p rated handgun to.

[Steelharp]

Thanks, guys. I believe y'all have given me what I needed to know. I knew you would have the info I needed!

[TrickyNicky]

And this is why I've avoided getting one. I see one every so often and start to look seriously at it...then remember all I've been told from several owners. Maybe not a valid enough reason, but...

Well they're nice enough pistols and there is a fix out there for them to get them running well, and apparently they work ok with steel cased ammo so it's not all bad news on them. I'd pick up another at the right price, but can probably say that about anything really I guess :lol:

[hipower]

Well they're nice enough pistols and there is a fix out there for them to get them running well, and apparently they work ok with steel cased ammo so it's not all bad news on them. I'd pick up another at the right price, but can probably say that about anything really I guess :lol:

 

Probably should also say that another reason not to buy is that it doesn't rate high enough on my "Buy Me Now!" list.