Colt National Match 1911 (56k go take a nap)

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Colt National Match 1911

S/N: C182848

Figured I'd post up some photos of the Colt National Match 1911 that I inherited from my late grandfather, before he passed. I've made mention of the gun's history before, in this thread, but never really posted many photos of it. I had the chance to pull it out of it's anti-corrosion bag tonight and break it down for inspection/cleaning... so I snapped a few photos of it. It's definitely had an active life, and has the normal wear and tear as well as the classic "slide stop scratch", but it's still in very good condition for it's age. And it's deadly accurate. It's obviously had trigger work done to it, as it breaks quick and crisp like a glass rod... and you barely have to breathe on it to send a round down the pipe. In addition, the grip safety has been worked and pretty much taken out of the loop (i.e. will fire with or without it depressed).

I'd like to get a new barrel for it, and a new bushing fitted to it, and just clean the gun up overall. I'll definitely never part with it due to the sentimental value, and I'd like to make it a presentation piece (with a nice case) as well as a shooter. Something to pass on down the future generations. As such, I'm torn between leaving the finish as-is or having it re-blued by a top refinisher. I like the worn and used look, as I think it shows a lot of character, but it really does KILL me to see the slide stop scratch. As I said, I will never part with the gun, so "hurting the value" isn't even a consideration when it comes to refinishing it. What do you guys think? Opinions?

Anyway... here are the photos I took of the gun. Enjoy.

Edited October 21, 2008 by Verbal Kint

[Guest Valkyrie]

[xd shooter]

IMHO I would leave that baby alone & put it in a case like you said. The value of that gun is what you see in the pics (the way he shot it).

[Guest Honest AK]

I'd keep it like it is. Thanks for sharing the pics.

[et45]

Refinish it.It has already been customized and has aftermarket sights.I like the pattern on top of the checkering.

[Guest meadowmb]

I would leave it like it was

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Refinish it.It has already been customized and has aftermarket sights.I like the pattern on top of the checkering.

While it has had some custom work down, I'm pretty sure (from what research I turned up) that the King sights are factory equipment.

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/nm.htm

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/gcpamphlet.pdf

Colt National Match – Chambered in .45 ACP, these were basically Government Model pistols with hand honed actions, match grade barrels, and exceptionally fine blued finish. They were manufactured between 1933 and 1941. Their serial number range will be within C164,800 – C215,000. These pistols came in both fixed sight and adjustable sight models.

Found a couple early model National Matches like this one, that all had the same sights.

Not sure who added the pattern / V-cuts on the top of the checkering that you noticed. He never mentioned that part in any of his stories about the gun, so not sure if he did it himself or what. The photos I took don't really shot it all that well, but if you were to look straight at it, you would notice (while done crisp and straight) the point of the "V" cut isn't exactly centered on the grip. So he very well may have done it himself.

[Guest EasilyObsessed]

Leave it as is.

If you want a presentation piece, buy something with no sentimental value and "fix" that.

Good lookin' gun tho

[Guest c_o_jones]

Leave that thing alone.

[TGO David]

Replace whatever parts may be worn internally to make it a safely operable firearm again. Wipe it down with oil to a light sheen, then shadow-box it.

[strickj]

A beautiful gun!

But I digress with popular opinion! I say do as you wish to make it more valuable to you.

I dont think I would want my handed down guns to sit in a safe after I'm gone!

[musicman]

I love that front strap checkering and the cool angled cuts at the top under the trigger guard! Beautiful gun.

I'm a sentimental fool.... I'd do like David said and do just enough to make it properly functional (if you think that means making the grip safety work again, so be it) and then just enjoy it as Dad left it.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

I love that front strap checkering and the cool angled cuts at the top under the trigger guard! Beautiful gun.

I'm a sentimental fool.... I'd do like David said and do just enough to make it properly functional (if you think that means making the grip safety work again, so be it) and then just enjoy it as Dad left it.

Yeah... leaning more towards leaving it as-is (finish wise) but just giving it a thorough cleaning.

The grip safety does need to be addressed. You're fine if you know it's like that, but it's likely (and has been known) to surprise you otherwise. I really can't describe how quick and short the trigger travel is on this gun... just the thought process alone, in compressing the trigger, seems to be all that is needed. To quote Borat, "It's a niiiiiice". But, that mixed with the disconnected trigger safety = bad juju for anyone not familiar with this 1911. As I mentioned, this will be something that is passed down the generations... so I want it to be as safe as possible.

Edited October 21, 2008 by Verbal Kint

[musicman]

Cool. If that gun were a brand new deep blue, or a shiny fresh nickle or something, it just wouldn't be the same.

It's really cool to see a gun go from father to son. Unfortunately, I'm the only one in my family who is really into guns, so I won't be on the receiving end of anything like this, but my kids will have a ball when I kick the bucket!

[Guest gcrookston]

Restore this gun? Refinish? Don't be a fool.

From 1932 to 1940 Colt produced an estimated 3,000 (Clawson) or maybe less than 1,500 (Mullin) National Match pistols. Since the factory didn't note in it's ledger which of the 21,000 or so that went into civilian sales during this period (out of some 58,000 produced -- the balance went overseas or were converted to military service), it's impossible to know exactly if this pistol left the factory in 1936 as a NM, or was later converted using original Pre-War NM parts. I'm going to guess, having not seen the gun in person, that it is an original based upon what appears to be matching original finish and wear patterns.

When this 1936 vintage shipped from the factory, it most probably had Stevens "Patridge" type sights. These sights were prohibited from Competition and were replaced as necessary. The King sights on the gun appear period correct for a pistol that competed circa 1940's, 1950's.

It would have also shipped with wooden grips, but typically these were replaced with GI grips by service team members or armorers. The front strap checkering was also accomplished at some point after it left the factory and appears to have been very well executed. The trigger shoe may have been installed as early as the 1950's, but more likely in the 1960's or even later. It was not uncommon to lighten or even disconnect the grip safety entirely for competitive purposes.

Although a presitine NIB example will fetch top dollar (I sold a 1938 example in 98% with box and all paper work about 10 years ago for $6,000 -- I think they've doubled by now), there remains a very strong demand by collectors for examples which have the pedegreed signs of period modifications by their owners and competitors.

Refinishing or restoring this pistol will detract X10 from the historical and collector value.

If you desire to shoot it, replace the springs and keep to only 230 gr Ball ammo.

Enjoy your rare and historic arm!!!

Edited October 22, 2008 by gcrookston

[Angus]

Dude...I got wood....wow...brb

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Enjoy your rare and historic arm!!!

Yeah, definitely will.

As stated earlier, I'm just going to thoroughly clean it, and replace what needs to be replaced for it to function. The barrel really needs to be cleaned out and see what the damage is... it looks really rough looking through it, and most likely will need replacing (just from eye-balling it in it's current condition). It obviously had a lot of corrosive ammo put through it, and what brushes and patches I did send through it with some copper remover, came out pitch black.

What do you guys recommend for cleaning the barrel? I vaguely remember someone saying hot water and soap before... but didn't pay much attention at the time, as I was never in the situation to have to do so.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Dude...I got wood....wow...brb

Don't forget the towel.

[strickj]

[Angus]

Wowsers, that was good...ok I am back, now where was I?

Really super looking 1911 man....

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Wowsers, that was good...ok I am back, now where was I?

Really super looking 1911 man....

10:29 AM - 5:36 PM. I'm definitely impressed.

Thanks, for the compliment.

[Guest gcrookston]

for the bore I'd start with hot water and dish soap using a stiff brass brush. If the barrel is truly trashed I would set it aside along with the bushing for safe keeping and consider sending the entire gun to a high-quality Smith like Clark's Custom Guns in Princeton Louisiana to have a new barrel and bushing fitted (might as well get them to give it a tune-up while you are at it).

Before shipping it, explain to them you just want it in working order, not restored or otherwise cosmetically altered.

As for the areas of rust, get some Breakfree CLP "Collectors" and with a soft tooth brush gently go over these areas and wipe with a 100% cotton t-shirt soaked in the same. This will not entirely remove the rust, but it will neutralize it. Leave the gun wet with this oil for as long as possible and in-between handling store the gun with a light coat of this oil. The idea here is not to restore the gun's finish but to prevent further deterioration.

Edited October 23, 2008 by gcrookston

[Guest Verbal Kint]

for the bore I'd start with hot water and dish soap using a stiff brass brush. If the barrel is truly trashed I would set it aside along with the bushing for safe keeping and consider sending the entire gun to a high-quality Smith like Clark's Custom Guns in Princeton Louisiana to have a new barrel and bushing fitted (might as well get them to give it a tune-up while you are at it).

Before shipping it, explain to them you just want it in working order, not restored or otherwise cosmetically altered.

As for the areas of rust, get some Breakfree CLP "Collectors" and with a soft tooth brush gently go over these areas and wipe with a 100% cotton t-shirt soaked in the same. This will not entirely remove the rust, but it will neutralize it. Leave the gun wet with this oil for as long as possible and in-between handling store the gun with a light coat of this oil. The idea here is not to restore the gun's finish but to prevent further deterioration.

Thanks.

Yeah, I just finished boiling some water and then pouring it through the barrel (into the sink - not back into the pot). Then I mixed some soap into the water and thoroughly bathed and flushed the barrel some more. Set the barrel aside and let it cool to room temp. Then went to work on it with some more copper Hoppes. Bunch of black nastiness got flushed out, just by pouring the Hoppes down the barrel, and even more when I took a brass brush and patches to it. It's better than before, but it's still pretty pitted inside. You can see the lands and grooves in the barrel, but the overall inside finish is pretty pitted. I coated both the bushing and barrel, after thorough cleaning, with liberal amounts of Weapon Shield and then wiped them down - leaving a thin coating. Placed them in a ziplock bag for storage/keeping, but definitely going to have to order a new barrel and bushing for this gun (and have them fitted by a qualified smith).

I'm pretty sure I still have the stock plug and recoil spring around somewhere, but this gun obviously had a modern recoil reduction system swapped into it in the later years of life. Full-length compression rod (internal spring), with the out spring over top of it and the end plug (3 pieces). I remember seeing the original pieces somewhere in a baggie, but need to track them down as they've changed locations while I was overseas and then in Virginia. My father likely moved them around, when they cleaned out my grandparent's house and stored the weapons. If I can't find them, I'll just buy a new original parts I guess.

Other than those parts, the gun is in very good condition. I've cleaned as much as I can, and lubed it with Weapon Shield, but would ultimately like to tear it down piece by piece (or have a smith do it) and really give it a good cleaning. If I had an ultrasonic tank cleaning system, it would be a breeze... but I don't, so it's the old hand's on method.

I'd like to pick up some nice wooden grips for it. Preferably something appropriate for this era gun, but not sure how easy that would be. So probably go with high-end repros. Of course, again, I'm saving all the original parts and bagging them up.

After the gun is "back to specs" I'll pick up or build a nice presentation case. My grandfather had a pretty extensive wood working shop, with tens of thousands of dollars worth of tools and machinery. Everything is as he left it... so it would be cool to further personalize the piece and use his shop and materials to make a case for it. I, unfortunately, never really grasped a fraction of the knowledge that he possessed when it came to turning an idea into reality. This man not only built the houses that our family lived it... but would get bored and build everything from grandfather clocks to furniture, to toys for us kids, or random collectibles/gifts to give to friends. While I have all of his tools and materials, I definitely don't possess the gift he had. I may give it a go though... as I said, it just seems fitting.

[Guest eyebedam]

If you decide on refinishing it you might as well go out. Give it a nice robar job & some custom grips. If not leave it the way it is right now. I like it though.

[musicman]

I haven't bought any 1911 grips (cuz I don't have one yet) but I have 3 pairs of revolver grips from Kim Ahrends. His stuff is awesome, and reasonably priced. You can also actually call and talk to him, and tell him what you have and what you're looking for, and he'll work with you!

Check out his stuff: http://ahrendsgripsusa.com/1911.htm