Consequences of Improper Carry

[Guest VTCessnaPilot]

Just got my TN carry permit a months ago and I’m still a bit leery of what could happen if someone was to be discovered carrying in a prohibited area. I certainly don’t have any intention to do so; I just want to see what that person would be up against if they had a lapse in judgment.

I’ve looked over TN code 39-17-13xx to get the basic idea of what would happen in most instances. Aside from the obvious felonies of carrying in a courthouse or school property (if I read the laws correctly), what do you think would happen in these circumstances?

1. Carrying in an area properly posted to disallow firearms (such as Opry Mills Mall). Would they just ask you to leave or would you be charged with a misdemeanor?

2. Carrying in Federal buildings- (post office) Things seem a bit vague in TN on this one; what’s the penalty if any?

3. Carrying at work- no legal posting on the entrances, just a notice in the employee handbook stating that ANY weapons on the property are not allowed, concealed or not.

4. Carrying on airport property- (obviously not after security)… if it’s not posted on the entrances, is it still allowed?

Thanks to all who have some input!

[Guest bkelm18]

Just got my TN carry permit a months ago and I’m still a bit leery of what could happen if someone was to be discovered carrying in a prohibited area. I certainly don’t have any intention to do so; I just want to see what that person would be up against if they had a lapse in judgment.

I’ve looked over TN code 39-17-13xx to get the basic idea of what would happen in most instances. Aside from the obvious felonies of carrying in a courthouse or school property (if I read the laws correctly), what do you think would happen in these circumstances?

1. Carrying in an area properly posted to disallow firearms (such as Opry Mills Mall). Would they just ask you to leave or would you be charged with a misdemeanor?

2. Carrying in Federal buildings- (post office) Things seem a bit vague in TN on this one; what’s the penalty if any?

3. Carrying at work- no legal posting on the entrances, just a notice in the employee handbook stating that ANY weapons on the property are not allowed, concealed or not.

4. Carrying on airport property- (obviously not after security)… if it’s not posted on the entrances, is it still allowed?

Thanks to all who have some input!

1. That depends on if they call the cops on you or not.

2. Carry in federal buildings (like the post office) is against the law in every state.

3. The worst that'll probably happen is you get fired.

4. If the airport is not posted, you can carry at an airport except past security into the terminals.

[Guest VTCessnaPilot]

I'm still worried I'm going to miss something... here's the no-carry list I can think of for TN

- where alcohol is served

- judicial proceedings

- state parks

- state and national forests

- school gounds

- public recreational areas

- legally posted businesses

- federal buildings

Am I missing anything?

[Guest bkelm18]

Not sure about the National Forests, but National Parks are a no-no as well.

From http://handgunlaw.us/

-It is an offense for a person to possess a firearm within the confines of a building open to the public where liquor, wine or other alcoholic beverage, as defined in 57*3*101(a)(1)(A),.or beer as defined in 57*6*102(1), are served for on premises consumption.

-Any room in which judicial proceedings are in progress.

-Any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution. It is not an offense for a nonstudent adult to possess a firearm, if such firearm is contained

within a private vehicle operated by the adult and is not handled by such adult, or by any other person acting with the expresses or implied consent of such adult, while such vehicle is on school property.

-On the grounds of any public park, playground, civic center or other building facility, area or property owned, used or operated by any municipal, county or state government, or instrumentality thereof, for recreational purposes.

-An individual, corporation, business entity or government entityor agent thereof is authorized to prohibit possession of weapons by any person otherwise authorized by this subsection, at meetings conducted by, or on premises owned, operated, managed or under control of such individual, corporation, business entity or government entity. Notice of such prohibition shall be posted in prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by persons entering the building, portion of the building or buildings where weapon possession is prohibited.

[Guest VTCessnaPilot]

I guess this is my big question- has anyone here been caught carrying in an area posted (but not using legal signage) as no firearms allowed? What kind of encounter did you have?

Edited October 21, 2008 by VTCessnaPilot
browser error

[Guest m&pc9]

I was caught driving in a national park with a loaded weapon. It was between the seats in my truck. And this was about 2 weeks before I got my HCP:ugh: (that was very stupid). But anyway he unloaded the gun and give me the magazine to put in the glove box and he gun in the tool box. He give me a warning on the gun and the speeding:) but said the other rangers would not be so nice If I were caught by them.

[EMTRN]

I was caught driving in a national park with a loaded weapon. It was between the seats in my truck. And this was about 2 weeks before I got my HCP:ugh: (that was very stupid). But anyway he unloaded the gun and give me the magazine to put in the glove box and he gun in the tool box. He give me a warning on the gun and the speeding:) but said the other rangers would not be so nice If I were caught by them.

I hope you went and bought a lottery ticket after the stop was over.

[Guest Revelator]

I hope you went and bought a lottery ticket after the stop was over.

Well, I think what happened to him was the lottery ticket. Seriously, that was like hitting a $50,000 jackpot, because that's what it could have cost you after it was all said and done had the ranger called it in.

[Guest Hyaloid]

I posted this synopsis a whie ago... so make sur eit is not outdated...

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=869&highlight=penalties

[robbiev]

I know several people that were caught carrying in a location that serves alcohol. In every instance (that I'm referring to) the person was caught because they did something airheaded, like go into the restroom and take off a jacket to use the urinal. In another incident, the guy came out of his office, went to his car, put on his gun in plain view of anyone who might be in the parking lot, then put on a jacket, then walked into a restaurant that was in the same parking lot. Someone in the parking lot saw him and called the police.

In all of the instances I know of, the police came and simply asked to see a permit, then told person to lock the gun up in their vehicle, except for one instance where the police officer didn't do anything except ask to see the guy's permit and after he showed it to him, the officer just said "Ok, thanks. That's all I needed to know," and left.

On federal property, it probably wouldn't go that easy.

Edited October 21, 2008 by robbiev

[Guest m&pc9]

I hope you went and bought a lottery ticket after the stop was over.

I was very happy to get to home that night:)

[Guest db99wj]

I know several people that were caught carrying in a location that serves alcohol. In every instance (that I'm referring to) the person was caught because they did something airheaded, like go into the restroom and take off a jacket to use the urinal. In another incident, the guy came out of his office, went to his car, put on his gun in plain view of anyone who might be in the parking lot, then put on a jacket, then walked into a restaurant that was in the same parking lot. Someone in the parking lot saw him and called the police.

In all of the instances I know of, the police came and simply asked to see a permit, then told person to lock the gun up in their vehicle, except for one instance where the police officer didn't do anything except ask to see the guy's permit and after he showed it to him, the officer just said "Ok, thanks. That's all I needed to know," and left.

On federal property, it probably wouldn't go that easy.

[Guest 270win]

It is debatable if it is legal or not to carry on park property. I am of the opinion that, if the park is not properly posted pursuant to 39-17-1359, then it is legal based on 39-17-1311 prohibits weapons listed in 39-17-1302(a) which are things like switchblades, suppressors, and machine guns. I do not carry a machine pistol or a suppressor on my handgun.

It is interesting to note that a lot of laws are discretionally enforced, sometimes for better or worse. The example a previous poster gave of the police asking a permittee to take a handgun out to the car of a restaurant/bar parking lot is good policy and PR with those of us who are no threat to people. The majority of police probably think that law is stupid and only enforce it against those without permits and/or drunk and carrying.

I have seen where a post office can and cannot be legal, again depending on reading of the law. I never see signs at the post offices i go to.

The nice thing is we are protected by the Constitution against unreasonable search and also incriminating ourselves. I've never seen a metal detector at a couple hospitals that have 'legal' $500 fine signs and i've never been patted down to go inside Chili's. This state is not one where i would openly carry because you never know where it might be illegal to carry.

National forests and Wildlife Management areas are generally legal to carry in, if you have a hunting license and carrying a firearm legal for whatever is in season. A hunting license is a way around that stupid law....for example...coyotes are in season year round and you can carry a 22 with at least a 3 inch barrel handgun on public lands to small game hunt. I have a 22 pistol with a legal length barrel for that purpose. You don't need a permit to carry while 'hunting' or walking in the woods. Just have your hunting license.

[Guest db99wj]

It is debatable if it is legal or not to carry on park property. I am of the opinion that, if the park is not properly posted pursuant to 39-17-1359, then it is legal based on 39-17-1311 prohibits weapons listed in 39-17-1302(a) which are things like switchblades, suppressors, and machine guns. I do not carry a machine pistol or a suppressor on my handgun.

It is interesting to note that a lot of laws are discretionally enforced, sometimes for better or worse. The example a previous poster gave of the police asking a permittee to take a handgun out to the car of a restaurant/bar parking lot is good policy and PR with those of us who are no threat to people. The majority of police probably think that law is stupid and only enforce it against those without permits and/or drunk and carrying.

I have seen where a post office can and cannot be legal, again depending on reading of the law. I never see signs at the post offices i go to.

The nice thing is we are protected by the Constitution against unreasonable search and also incriminating ourselves. I've never seen a metal detector at a couple hospitals that have 'legal' $500 fine signs and i've never been patted down to go inside Chili's. This state is not one where i would openly carry because you never know where it might be illegal to carry.

National forests and Wildlife Management areas are generally legal to carry in, if you have a hunting license and carrying a firearm legal for whatever is in season. A hunting license is a way around that stupid law....for example...coyotes are in season year round and you can carry a 22 with at least a 3 inch barrel handgun on public lands to small game hunt. I have a 22 pistol with a legal length barrel for that purpose. You don't need a permit to carry while 'hunting' or walking in the woods. Just have your hunting license.

The post office in Batesville, AR is posted

I have a hunting license....and a .22 pistola.

[Guest VTCessnaPilot]

It is debatable if it is legal or not to carry on park property. I am of the opinion that, if the park is not properly posted pursuant to 39-17-1359, then it is legal based on 39-17-1311 prohibits weapons listed in 39-17-1302(a) which are things like switchblades, suppressors, and machine guns.

I've heard both sides of the state/nat'l park carry issue... it does certainly seem debatable. After checking handgunlaw.us though, they claim that it's prohibited. Anyone know of TN legislation that proves otherwise?

[Oh Shoot]

I've heard both sides of the state/nat'l park carry issue... it does certainly seem debatable. After checking handgunlaw.us though, they claim that it's prohibited. Anyone know of TN legislation that proves otherwise?

I think he's specifically referring to the TN municipal "park/recreational area" statute, not national parks, which is a federal law.

- OS

[Fallguy]

I've heard both sides of the state/nat'l park carry issue... it does certainly seem debatable. After checking handgunlaw.us though, they claim that it's prohibited. Anyone know of TN legislation that proves otherwise?

There are two AG opinons that say it is illegal. 07-148 (Question 3) and 08-26 reaffirming the previous opinon after questions were raised.

There were also bill introduced last session to allow carry in state parks that failed.

So although to many (including myself) the plain reading of 39-17-1311 does not prevent handguns in parks, it would seem the AG and legislature disagree.

[Oh Shoot]

.....So although to many (including myself) the plain reading of 39-17-1311 does not prevent handguns in parks, it would seem the AG and legislature disagree.

I still do believe there's a test case there that might succeed, though.

Besides "firearms" not being specifically mentioned in that statue reference, another tactic is: the law re carrying in public parks says you are not to do it with an attempt to go armed. And HCP is a defense to going armed.

- OS

[DaveTN]

I got carrying in Illinois. But that’s a whole other story.

Don’t try it.

[laktrash]

Where do interstate rest areas fall in this?

[DaveTN]

Where do interstate rest areas fall in this?

You are fine

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Unless the rest area is in Illinois.

[Guest db99wj]

You are fine

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Unless the rest area is in Illinois.

That is one place I will always have my handgun on.

[Guest jth_3s]

What about fairgrounds or jamborees?

[Oh Shoot]

What about fairgrounds or jamborees?

Any number of threads I've seen re restricted carry at Knoxville gunshows...

dunno if anyone has ever mentioned that the ones at Chilhowee Park, you are already not supposed to be carrying...city recreation park/area.

And when the fair is there...it's STILL city recreation area, yes?

- OS

[Guest jth_3s]

They had a Gunshow at Tennessee Techs Ag pavilion. You arent suppossed to be able to carry guns on college campuses how did they get by that law?