FBI 9MM Justification, FBI Training Division

[TNWNGR]

One of the things you should understand about the FBI’s training and procurement side is its hieratical nature and aversion to non constructive change. These folks understand firearms training to an unparallel degree and are generally mirrored by LEA World Wide. It doesn’t mean they’re always right but rather well informed.

Unfortunately Federal LEA, like State, County & Municipals all have to deal with insiders who drive the train on what the best new service pistol will be. If you’d told when I entered LE that most LEA in the USA would be carrying a plastic framed pistol in what was essentially the .40 G&A wildcat I’d have laughed at you.

Now seeing the circular logic return to the 9mm P, which is essentially a compromise mid-range cartridge amuses me. It however, functions adequately in the real world as a defensive cartridge with JHP ammunition. Still, with all of the fanfare and such behind the .357 SIG I’d have expected this to be the .40 S&W & 9MM P successor in the FBI DOJ.

As I mentioned in an earlier post none of this is new business, additionally personal bias and outsider political intervention really influence Federal LEA firearms acquisitions. Me, I actually enjoy the 9mm P, like the .45ACP, cut my teeth on the .38 Special and love the .357 Magnum on an N Frame or Python platform.   

[TNWNGR]

D/T.   

Edited October 8, 2014 by TNWNGR

[mikegideon]

One of the things you should understand about the FBI’s training and procurement side is its hieratical nature and aversion to non constructive change. These folks understand firearms training to an unparallel degree and are generally mirrored by LEA World Wide. It doesn’t mean they’re always right but rather well informed.

Unfortunately Federal LEA, like State, County & Municipals all have to deal with insiders who drive the train on what the best new service pistol will be. If you’d told when I entered LE that most LEA in the USA would be carrying a plastic framed pistol in what was essentially the .40 G&A wildcat I’d have laughed at you.

Now seeing the circular logic return to the 9mm P, which is essentially a compromise mid-range cartridge amuses me. It however, functions adequately in the real world as a defensive cartridge with JHP ammunition. Still, with all of the fanfare and such behind the .357 SIG I’d have expected this to be the .40 S&W & 9MM P successor in the FBI DOJ.

As I mentioned in an earlier post none of this is new business, additionally personal bias and outsider political intervention really influence Federal LEA firearms acquisitions. Me, I actually enjoy the 9mm P, like the .45ACP, cut my teeth on the .38 Special and love the .357 Magnum on an N Frame or Python platform.   

 

When I take this whole thing back to its roots, which is the severe butt whipping they took from a crazy guy with a mini 14, I can't give them much credibility. They blamed the guns, instead of crappy tactics. Sure, they threw lots of money at it, and got lots of good data. Still doesn't excuse their flawed CYA logic. You show up to a rifle fight with inferior firepower, and then go looking for a new caliber. 

 

And what's this new projectile technology? The picture in the article is a Winchester Ranger. Isn't that just a black talon without the moly? Nothing new about that. I don't see anything wrong with them going back to 9mm. Just kinda irks me to see another government pig that's just plumb covered in lipstick.

[Patton]

The FBI has been buying RA9T for many years for those with the 9mm. That article is really the same as the others previously posted. For what it is worth, agents know nothing of plans to switch platforms or calibers; they do say that they will be switching to a lead-free ammunition soon. Talk of solid copper core with lead platings is what they say.

[mikegideon]

The FBI has been buying RA9T for many years for those with the 9mm. That article is really the same as the others previously posted. For what it is worth, agents know nothing of plans to switch platforms or calibers; they do say that they will be switching to a lead-free ammunition soon. Talk of solid copper core with lead platings is what they say.

 

There could be something good come from that, if they're not doing it to save the ducks. Copper can make some good bullets.

[JReedEsq]

A source I asked about this emphasized that, just like any other large Federal Agency, the Bureau contains lots of different people with lots if different opinions regarding caliber choice etc... He said there were even some instructors promoting the Smith & Wesson M&P.  While he is an attorney by education, this guy isn't as nerdy as what you might think of as an F.B.I. agent (an account, lawyer, or computer geek who happens to be issued a weapon).  He spends a lot of time hunting and likes to shoot for fun.  He seemed not to care one way or another about caliber... 9mm, .40, .45 ACP, whatever... He did indicate that he would like to stick with the Glock platform because of familiarity.  It's been a while but I think he even said he carried a Glock 19 back when he was practicing law, before becoming an agent.  He was issued a 23 so obviously that wasn't much of a change for him.

Edited October 8, 2014 by JReedEsq

[Spiffy]

I'm happy with the development of the 40 S&W round. It's the perfect gamer round for minor scoring!

[nightrunner]

There could be something good come from that, if they're not doing it to save the ducks. Copper can make some good bullets.

Yeah, Im really liking the new Barnes TAC-XPD ammo.

[DaveTN]

And what's this new projectile technology? The picture in the article is a Winchester Ranger. Isn't that just a black talon without the moly? Nothing new about that. I don't see anything wrong with them going back to 9mm. Just kinda irks me to see another government pig that's just plumb covered in lipstick.

I always hear that the ammo of today is far better than it was in the 80’s. Of course that is usually coming from someone born in the 80’s. Edited October 8, 2014 by DaveTN

[mikegideon]

I always hear that the ammo of today is far better than it was in the 80’s. Of course that is usually coming from someone born in the 80’s.

 

Ding  :up:

[Guest tangojuliet]

45 acp golden sabers  in a 1911 nough said 

[300winmag]

9mm is similar to 38 special in a 4 inch barrel.  38 special was popular because it was easy to shoot and could be carried in handguns that are not too heavy.  For quite a while the N frame was the only Smith 357 available.  Good gun but too heavy to carry all the time.  The K frames were lighter and easier to carry.

 

I think 9mm is a great round because it is about the cheapest centerfire pistol round that allows someone to practice more and have a good time at the range.  Mild recoil in a full sized gun is nice too just like how 38 special in a 4 inch gun is mild.

 

I like 45's, but the ammo costs too much to shoot very often.

 

It's also important to note that most of the popular handgun trainers, such as Larry Vickers and Suarez, seem to use Glock 17 or Glock 19's in 9mm for their classes.  The trainers lay out good reasons for using Glock 9mm's.

[mikegideon]

I reload 45. That brings the cost right down