Westgate Mall... what we can learn...

[Peace]

Recently saw a snippet of the HBO special on The Westgate Mall attack in Kenya.    Sheesh.

 

- with those-who-shall-not-be-named calling for westerners to be killed wherever they can be found, what can we learn from the attack at Westgate?   Can the lessons of Westgate be a bridge toward a growing respect for responsible citizen carry?

[Dolomite_supafly]

I am surprised that we have not had a group open fire on crowds of innocents. I suspect a major assault, by a group of terrorists, is being planned but are looking for the ideal place to get the most bang for the buck. Another reason why I am surprised it has not happened it because of how easy our jails are and how lenient our courts are. They could kill dozens and as long as they plead guilty they would live out their lives in much better place than their homeland.

 

After it happens there will not be a call for more of the populace being armed for protection but a call for guns to be outlawed which we all know will never work. And because these types are going to use "assault weapons" there will be another round of scarcity and high prices afterwards.

 

My only hope is that there is someone armed to at least try to fight back when it does happen.

[Mark A]

It is a pretty sobering show... I don't remember reading 2 private citizens with permits went in with the few police willing to go on in.

Not really a lesson learned for me as I hate malls. Amazon was invented for a reason...

My wife breaks out in hives at the thought of never going shopping again.

[dawgdoc]

Lessons learned:  

 

*Even four incompetent zealots can do a lot of damage.  They killed 63; competent soldiers would have killed many more.  The terrorists ran out of cell phone minutes and asked a hostage to get a refill card; they were using the phones to communicate with their handlers in Somalia.  They let go some Western women who had children; I don't think ISIS would be so kind.  We could ban all private gun ownership, and terrorists could easily obtain an AR using a baseball bat to ambush a cop who parks his car at home.  After seeing what four jackwads can do, I truly fear what a more motivated enemy could accomplish.

 

*Almost every mall I know has a service corridor that the stores exit to--head there first, but be careful, because the terrorists may have staged someone at the exits.  In this case, they just did a frontal assault.

 

*On the documentary, it was amazing the number of people who were walking away from nearby gunshots; one guy was still pushing his buggy in the grocery store.  Smart, defenseless people run (but try not to get trampled).  They also showed an office with one door that a bunch of people hid in; if the terrorist had found that room, it would have been fish in a barrel.

 

*The few cops and two civilians who entered the mall did make a difference; although they did not hit any bad guys with their handguns and AKs, the firefight provided distraction that let a lot of people escape out the service bay of the large grocery store.  They also rescued a fair number people in the mall itself.

 

*Never be in a situation where you need "rescue" by a third-world army (Kenyan army waited for hours, then shot at hostages, and even killed one of their SWAT cops).  They only succeeded (after 40 hours) by killing the terrorists (and much of the mall) with an explosive projectile.

[TMF]

This is one of those attacks that could be accomplished by well trained, disciplined terrorists.  The reason why there isn't such a concern from home grown terrorist groups is because that attracts people of a certain personality, who really don't believe in a cause; they're just looking for a legitimate outlet for violence.  Folks like that suck at opsec and keep getting caught. 

 

The ones we have to worry about are the ones being recruited and trained in ISIS held territory.  Anyone who thinks that is not happening doesn't grasp how these people operate.  Our best defense from terrorist organizations since 9/11 has been the incompetence of our enemy.  They have had limited funding due to us freezing cash world wide, and their pool of recruits has left a lot to be desired.  ISIS doesn't have that problem.  They have an army of young recruits from around the world to pull from.  They have more cash than al Qaeda ever had.  They will strike us, and they won't be looking to hijack planes again.  The type of attack which occurred in Kenya is exactly the type they will try here.

[Dolomite_supafly]

This is one of those attacks that could be accomplished by well trained, disciplined terrorists.  The reason why there isn't such a concern from home grown terrorist groups is because that attracts people of a certain personality, who really don't believe in a cause; they're just looking for a legitimate outlet for violence.  Folks like that suck at opsec and keep getting caught. 

 

The ones we have to worry about are the ones being recruited and trained in ISIS held territory.  Anyone who thinks that is not happening doesn't grasp how these people operate.  Our best defense from terrorist organizations since 9/11 has been the incompetence of our enemy.  They have had limited funding due to us freezing cash world wide, and their pool of recruits has left a lot to be desired.  ISIS doesn't have that problem.  They have an army of young recruits from around the world to pull from.  They have more cash than al Qaeda ever had.  They will strike us, and they won't be looking to hijack planes again.  The type of attack which occurred in Kenya is exactly the type they will try here.

 

I knew the second they declared a caliphate that they would grow and grow fast, both in funding and in personnel. Coming together to fight the west is one thing but telling a male muslim you are trying to create their own Islamic state that will be ruled using Sharia and you have male muslims lining up. By declaring a caliphate they are getting the support of those who cannot fight as well as aid and expertise from around the world. And, worst case scenario they die and go to paradise fighting the infidels. I don't know of any muslim who wouldn't want their own Islamic state and now there are thousands fighting for it.

 

It is really hard to fight a group of people that believe that they will be better off dead. There really aren't any incentives to not fight us when they believe they are waging war in the name of their god.