How bout them Secret Service guys???

[bersaguy]

You know the President feels totally and completely safe and secure along with his family with that group of men on the job. I bet for the next two years they sleep in a different bedroom every night........ :shrug:  I saw the video several times and that one officer up on the pillar porch by the doors had what looked like his firearm pointed right at the guy and he just let him go through the doors and finally got tackled by several Secret Service people.

 

 

Now I have heard several different excuses as to why no one shot him which none of them do I my self believe. They said while he was out on the lawn they were concerned with through and through striking a civilian because they were lined all along the fence. Fine so when he gets closer to the White House a sniper takes him out. OOOppps forgot Obama had them done away with when he took office. When asked why his reply was because "I said i don't want them. "

 

So the guy on the porch with the pillars is about 25 feet away with gun pointed at the bad guy and does not fire????? WHY???? Anyone got any real ideas?? Anyone?

 

Does anyone remember the young lady with the baby in the back seat in the black rental car that supposedly tried to run down a White House Security Officer out in the general public with people everywhere and they fire 17 shots at her and the car while it was moving and finally hit a barricade when the young lady was struck in the head by a bullet. How much public safety consideration was given that day?????? 17 bullets flying in the air and 8 hit the car. Folks that leaves 9 bullets unaccounted for.

 

I will make the first guess and any one that wants to just jump in. I think Mr Obama has taken away all their bullets except 1 and it is now an Andy and Barney Fife Mayberry bullet in the pocket scenario because he does not know who he can trust and not trust any more so everyone has 1 bullet. That's my guess. Any others?

 

I heard him at a new conference today saying that he trusted his security 100% and they are great people to have protecting him and his family.      :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:

Edited September 23, 2014 by bersaguy

[gregintenn]

I imagine they'll use the same excuse as our education system and say that more funding will fix any shortcomings they might have.

[Wingshooter]

They probably have to take a poll first to find out if they should fire or not

[Omega]

They probably have to take a poll first to find out if they should fire or not

Maybe Hillary ordered them to stand down.

[Patton]

Since the man was not in the house it was handled properly. Just saying.

[bigun]

I read on the interweb that a guy was passing around a petition to force obumma to let the guy stay. After all he got over the fence fair square. Just like the illegals coming across the Mexican border. Obumma can support him and his family.

[Hershmeister]

Sign the petition for Justice for white house fence jumpers.

They're just undocumented visitors - not criminals!



https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/reform-white-house-access-and-grant-comprehensive-executive-amnesty-residency-migrant-omar-j/q8xjkLqj

[Mike.357]

don't know why and don't care.  I am thankful he was not wearing a bomb.  

 

I am guessing the next guy will be.

[btq96r]

I think it's important to look at this incident and remember that we currently have warplanes dropping ordinance in multiple countries.  I'm the last guy to overreact to a terror threat (I think standard vigilance is sufficient in most cases), but someone hoping the fence, then having enough time to make it into the executive mansion is a way wrong answer given the external circumstances.

[DaveTN]

The guy was insight of agents, wasn’t armed, and was detained. He was not an immediate threat; had he became one I’m sure he would have been shot.

I’m also sure had he been shot on the lawn, the same people that question why he wasn’t shot would be calling him an overzealous citizen and calling for the agents head.

[TMF]

 

So the guy on the porch with the pillars is about 25 feet away with gun pointed at the bad guy and does not fire????? WHY???? Anyone got any real ideas?? Anyone?

 

 

 

They assessed him as not being deadly threat so they didn't use deadly force.  Isn't that what we expect from law enforcement?

 

 

Does anyone remember the young lady with the baby in the back seat in the black rental car that supposedly tried to run down a White House Security Officer out in the general public with people everywhere and they fire 17 shots at her and the car while it was moving and finally hit a barricade when the young lady was struck in the head by a bullet. How much public safety consideration was given that day?????? 17 bullets flying in the air and 8 hit the car. Folks that leaves 9 bullets unaccounted for.

 

This person was assessed as a deadly threat.  She repeatedly tried to run over police officers and nearly killed a few pedestrians with her several ton weapon.  The fact she had a baby in the vehicle is inconsequential for two reason:

 

1. Law enforcement didn't know she had a baby in there,

 

2. The baby in the back didn't make her any less of a threat.

 

What in the world does this case have to do with someone who wasn't posing a deadly threat?  He isn't the first one to breach the grounds, and Secret Service does not have a "shoot on sight" order for trespassers. 

 

Why are people so worked up over this?

[vontar]

They were probably on break.  as the news said, POTUS had just left 4 minutes earlier.  You know the A team went with him, so the B team was left at home base and was probably on a smoke break.

[TMF]

They were probably on break.  as the news said, POTUS had just left 4 minutes earlier.  You know the A team went with him, so the B team was left at home base and was probably on a smoke break.

 

Could well be.  I was reading a story which talked about the SOP being to release the dogs.  Problem with that is, that's not how those dogs work.  Yeah, they'll chase a dude down and try to drag him across the lawn, but it's not as if they sit in a cage ready to pounce.  They have handlers, and those handlers have to get those dogs in drive and get them to get target lock.  Much different than a LE/Military dog, which may have already gone through a series of preparatory steps before being released.

 

It's difficult to be on standby all day long and have a dog that can go into drive and get target lock in a split second.  It just doesn't work that way, especially if the dog wasn't immediately located right where it would see some idiot running across the lawn.  From the account though, they still were on him fairly quick.  I'd say they should change that SOP of releasing the dogs on folks who don't appear to pose an immediate deadly threat, and transition to something more immediate, such as rubber bullets or pepper balls.  Wouldn't take much to have a dedicated less than lethal agent posted on the roof along with the armed security.

[Omega]

All joking aside, security needs to have a swift kick in the rear.  Security should be in layers, with the external layer being the non-lethal layer, with lethal potential as well.  Stun-guns, pepper spray/paintballs and bean-bag shotguns with lethal snipers in case of an actual attack.  The inner layer should be all lethal, sorry but once inside a determined attacker can do a lot of damage.  Imagine if he would of been armed with a bio weapon or heck even sick with Ebola, the entire White House would of been shut down for some time for decon and cleanup.  And what's up with the unlocked door??

[Peace]

Moat?   seemed to work well for others.  A bridge can keep the people's house accessible, yet limit unwanted incursion options.

[TMF]

  And what's up with the unlocked door??

 

Budget cuts.  PBO wouldn't approve unit purchase of cipher locks.

[Ugly]

Bersa, I think you are spot on.

No trust. Imagine how bad their morale is too!
I'da quit 6 years ago!

[bersaguy]

Well, I was just curious about what folks thought and I thank all of you for your replies. TMF mentioned that the fence jumper was able to be recognized as not being a threat while running across the lawn. It turned out he was not but he did make it into the building. The woman in the car never made it past the barricade on Pennsylvania Avenue but was killed because she was evidently a threat to Security personnel outside the fence. Okay , I can accept that but if you look at the history and record of the Secret Service since taking over in 2008 it sucks. Like Omega said, they made a decision he was not a threat while he was running wide open towards the White House residence. Does a threat have to be packing an armory of weapons and running across the W. H.  lawn to be a threat. He could have had pockets full of Resin or Anthrax  in plastic bags that he could throw at people and bust open completely contaminating the White House and kill a great number of people. Okay, he was not a threat but was he a dry run test for something bigger. His family says he suffers PSTD from his tours in Iraq. The next guy might have a different plan and will they make the same decision and be wrong next time?  Only time will tell I guess. As far as the record of the Secret Service since taking over in 2008. I think it sucks from the party with that couple crashing it by walking right in the White House and mingling with the President and First Lady in the beginning of his first term to partying in South America with prostitutes when they were suppose to be securing the presidents living quarters prior to his arrival and now this poor decision. Even if they did not shoot him, this guy should never have made it to an unlocked door of any building and he should have been confronted on the lawn and not inside the building. Folks, it's not that I like the President because he is not near the top of people I like. It is the fact that he is the President of the United States. I have lived my life remembering the assassination of  President John Kennedy and soon after his brother Bobby Kennedy as he was making his bid for the Presidency. I don't want to live through another and this day in time and the way the world is ans the way our country is hated by so many I think the security around the president needs to function at 110%...........JMHO

Edited September 23, 2014 by bersaguy

[TMF]

Thing is, folks in these positions have to make decisions based on what they know, not what may be.  You bring up the possibility of this person having a bio-weapon or being the bio-weapon himself.  I'm not saying that isn't possible, but an agent isn't going to make that call to use deadly force just because that MIGHT be the case, especially when he might just be some lunatic who just wanted to run across the White House lawn.  Hell, when Clinton was in office a guy flew a plane into the White House lawn and they didn't even break out the stingers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Eugene_Corder

 

Now, had there been a recent intelligence brief to agents that someone may try to breach the perimeter in order to release a bio-weapon, you can bet your butt they would've shot this guy once he crossed a certain line. 

 

Along with the plane crash, not too long after that a dude unloaded a whole magazine from his AK47 right there at the fence, shooting toward the White House with the President inside.  Secret Service not only didn't shoot him, but the man was subdued by civilian passersby. http://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/30/us/gunman-shoots-at-white-house-from-sidewalk.html

 

And, by the way, the crazy woman using her car as a weapon wasn't shot by Secret Service.  She was shot by the police.

 

C'mon, seriously.  With all the crazy crap that has happened there, faulting the Secret Service for not shooting an unarmed crazy for running up to the White House doors is ridiculous.  The President wasn't even there, and it turns out the guy couldn't have hurt anyone. 

[bersaguy]

Thing is, folks in these positions have to make decisions based on what they know, not what may be.  You bring up the possibility of this person having a bio-weapon or being the bio-weapon himself.  I'm not saying that isn't possible, but an agent isn't going to make that call to use deadly force just because that MIGHT be the case, especially when he might just be some lunatic who just wanted to run across the White House lawn.  Hell, when Clinton was in office a guy flew a plane into the White House lawn and they didn't even break out the stingers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Eugene_Corder

 

Now, had there been a recent intelligence brief to agents that someone may try to breach the perimeter in order to release a bio-weapon, you can bet your butt they would've shot this guy once he crossed a certain line. 

 

Along with the plane crash, not too long after that a dude unloaded a whole magazine from his AK47 right there at the fence, shooting toward the White House with the President inside.  Secret Service not only didn't shoot him, but the man was subdued by civilian passersby. http://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/30/us/gunman-shoots-at-white-house-from-sidewalk.html

 

And, by the way, the crazy woman using her car as a weapon wasn't shot by Secret Service.  She was shot by the police.

 

C'mon, seriously.  With all the crazy crap that has happened there, faulting the Secret Service for not shooting an unarmed crazy for running up to the White House doors is ridiculous.  The President wasn't even there, and it turns out the guy couldn't have hurt anyone. 

I won't argue with anyone about this and I do understand your viewpoint. You are correct that the guy was not a threat and you are correct the young lady in the car was shot by police but she is still just as dead. My point was to ask a question and get replies and I did and I thank all of the folks here that replied. I learned a lot.  Now just one more question. Just what exactly is the job of the Secret Service if not to protect the President from any and all threats big and small?  I do know that they almost had to double the Secret Service force when he got elected in 2008 and the payroll for his Secret Service is almost double of any former Presidents.

[TMF]

 I do know that they almost had to double the Secret Service force when he got elected in 2008 and the payroll for his Secret Service is almost double of any former Presidents.

 

It is?  The President doesn't set the payscale for Secret Service agents.  Besides, if they were making so much more they could afford to pay their hookers instead of stiffing them.

[Peace]

The Secret Service protects our currency.  Presidential detail would be a specific assignment - long term or temporary.  That is what else they do.  

 

One agent or several individual agents made a judgement call.  It looks like they did a pretty good job.

[MphsTiger1981]

The Secret Service protects our currency.  Presidential detail would be a specific assignment - long term or temporary.  That is what else they do.  

 

One agent or several individual agents made a judgement call.  It looks like they did a pretty good job.

 

 

Agreed. And I get what TMF says, as well. No dispute there, either.  But as the old saying goes, "the other side only has to get lucky once". I'm not well versed enough on Secret Service guidelines and protocols or the such, but I wonder what if someone wearing a bomb and baggy clothes to disguise it jumps the fence with empty hands and rushes the White House. Do the same rules of engagement stay in play until the first time someone detonates? Just saying, what if? Do they shoot before or after he yells Allah Akbar?

[bersaguy]

Thank you MphsTiger1981............ :up: That one quote was the answer I was looking for but was not getting:

 

 

 

Quote: from MphsTiger1981             "Do they shoot before or after he yells Allah Akbar"? 

 

Folks we are not in Kansas anymore as the saying goes in Wizard of Oz. The whole world seems to be mad at someone for something and the one that is the most dangerous hates most people just because their God told them to. No Country on earth is safe from attack any longer. No state in any country is safe from attack any longer. No town in any state is safe from attack. The time is about to come which I thought I would never see in my lifetime where I thought I might be fighting an enemy right here in America on American soil but it could happen tomorrow or next week or an hour from now.

 

This enemy has no remorse at all when it comes to killing anyone that is not and will not convert to their religious beliefs which makes them the most dangerous enemy this country or any other country will ever face. Keep your Guns locked and loaded because our President is not doing anything more than making them hate us even more...................JMHO

[RC3]

Its a catch 22. Not matter how they handled the situation, it would have seen as a terrible way to handle it by one side. Thats what is happening. A nice and big schism dividing the country. Blame the president all you want, but he isnt the one sole responsible party for all these problems. Its everyone.