AR and AK pistol help needed

[swim615]

As work slows down this fall I am going to buy a few pistols in the AR and AK platforms. What is the best barrel lengths and why? I plan to put Sig braces on them as well. Any other help on what to get and what to avoid? Anyone have any experience with a 9mm AR pistol? As always any help is much appreciated.

[KKing]

I think you'll find "best" barrel length to be highly subjective. My favorite length AR pistol I've built is a 10.5". Short enough to still be very compact, but with a OAL long enough for me to use a forward vertical grip.

I've heard it said some have trouble with getting shorter barrels like 7.5 inches to run right, but I wouldn't pay any attention to that. An AR is an AR regardless. I built one as a 7.5", but I found myself almost being forced to grip the magwell with my support hand because the barrel and handguard were so short and I didn't shoot it very well. Just my experiences. I find that with the longer barrel of the 10.5" it's easier for me to use almost my normal hand positioning and be more accurate with the weapon. I can make hits with it easily out to 200 yards. Edited September 22, 2014 by KKing

[Dolomite_supafly]

If you use the extended pistol buffer tube and a 10.5" barrel the overall length gets past 26". 26" is important because you can put a vertical forward grip on the gun. If you use a barrel shorter than that you will have a gun that is not 26", or more, and you cannot use a vertical forward grip. Regardless of overall length you can run an angled forward grip.

 

My wife has a 16" 9mm barrel and it gives 357 magnum performance. I would think as long as the barrel is at least 10.5" it should be close to 357 magnum performance.

 

Here is a website that tested calibers based on barrel length.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/index.html

Here is 9mm:http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html

And 223/5/56:http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/223rifle.html

[JPS]

I have a 7.5 barrel on mine, and it is a BLAST to shoot!  It's surprisingly (to me) accurate out to a reasonable distance, and long range shooting is not really why I built it.

[Smith]

Well I don't know much about the AR side of it but in the AK the barrel length is relatively irrelevant. You get nearly the same ballistics at useful ranges no matter what barrel length as long as you stay with the x39. That being said I prefer nothing shorter than 10". Main reason is getting useful furniture below that length is a custom made project. There are a variety now of furniture, gas tubes, sights,ect that are designed around the "krink" and AKM (Draco/AK).

 

I personally don't care for 5.56 or 5.45 in the shorter lengths because it really affects the ballistics once you get below 14" or so.  

[swim615]

If you use the extended pistol buffer tube and a 10.5" barrel the overall length gets past 26". 26" is important because you can put a vertical forward grip on the gun. If you use a barrel shorter than that you will have a gun that is not 26", or more, and you cannot use a vertical forward grip. Regardless of overall length you can run an angled forward grip.

 

My wife has a 16" 9mm barrel and it gives 357 magnum performance. I would think as long as the barrel is at least 10.5" it should be close to 357 magnum performance.

 

Here is a website that tested calibers based on barrel length.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/index.html

Here is 9mm:http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html

And 223/5/56:http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/223rifle.html

 

Can I still carry it loaded like any other pistol with my HCP if its past 26"?

 

How loud are they? Is there allot of muzzle flash with the shorter barrels?

[Smith]

Can I still carry it loaded like any other pistol with my HCP if its past 26"?

 

How loud are they? Is there allot of muzzle flash with the shorter barrels?

Yes, They are much louder with the shorter barrel as well as a lot more flash.

[Dolomite_supafly]

If you carry it, and it is 26"+, you must NOT have the VFG because with the VFG it is no longer a pistol. If you remove the VFG it returns to being a pistol and you can carry is concealed like any other handgun. 26" and a VFG turns it into a "firearm".

[Oh Shoot]

If you carry it, and it is 26"+, you must NOT have the VFG because with the VFG it is no longer a pistol. If you remove the VFG it returns to being a pistol and you can carry is concealed like any other handgun. 26" and a VFG turns it into a "firearm".

 

Yeah, open or concealed carrying the thing in "firearm" config you are technically breaking TN law, but concealed carry of it on person also loses the interpretative exemption from AOW status under federal law, and that's a much more serious rap.

 

Before the TN law about firearms in vehicles changed, I actually always took the VFG off mine even for transport, as it only was lawful to have a loaded "handgun", "shotgun", or "rifle" in vehicle.

 

But anyway, that's an issue most AR pistol folks don't even care about. Main thing to consider is what you expect from the 5.56/.223 round from short barrels, as the standard round suffers all the way down the line from the 20" barrel it was originally designed for.

 

Can tell you that the 10.5" barrel loses about 300 fps compared to a 16", and the 7.5" is somewhere around 150 fps less than that.

 

- OS

Edited September 23, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[teecro]

Yeah, open or concealed carrying the thing in "firearm" config you are technically breaking TN law, but concealed carry of it on person also loses the interpretative exemption from AOW status under federal law, and that's a much more serious rap.

 

Before the TN law about firearms in vehicles changed, I actually always took the VFG off mine even for transport, as it only was lawful to have a loaded "handgun", "shotgun", or "rifle" in vehicle.

 

But anyway, that's an issue most AR pistol folks don't even care about. Main thing to consider is what you expect from the 5.56/.223 round from short barrels, as the standard round suffers all the way down the line from the 20" barrel it was originally designed for.

 

Can tell you that the 10.5" barrel loses about 300 fps compared to a 16", and the 7.5" is somewhere around 150 fps less than that.

 

- OS

 

 

Yeah, open or concealed carrying the thing in "firearm" config you are technically breaking TN law, but concealed carry of it on person also loses the interpretative exemption from AOW status under federal law, and that's a much more serious rap.

 

Before the TN law about firearms in vehicles changed, I actually always took the VFG off mine even for transport, as it only was lawful to have a loaded "handgun", "shotgun", or "rifle" in vehicle.

 

But anyway, that's an issue most AR pistol folks don't even care about. Main thing to consider is what you expect from the 5.56/.223 round from short barrels, as the standard round suffers all the way down the line from the 20" barrel it was originally designed for.

 

Can tell you that the 10.5" barrel loses about 300 fps compared to a 16", and the 7.5" is somewhere around 150 fps less than that.

 

- OS

 

5.56 out of a 7.5" will still work on zombies right?

[Oh Shoot]

5.56 out of a 7.5" will still work on zombies right?

 

Sure, long as you can make the head shot -- but then, so will .22LR :)

 

- OS

[teecro]

Sure, long as you can make the head shot -- but then, so will .22LR :)

 

- OS

 

Ok good was just making sure..... I'll have to post up pics of my completed ARP and AKP both done with SB15 when I gets home next month....

[Slpeod]

Swim - I built my 9mm DDLES AR as a pistol with a 7" barrel. I run it with an AFG and a saddle on the buffer tube. Can't say enough good stuff about it, did I mention it uses Glock "Happy Sticks"? It has been flawless through about 600 rds.
If you're interested here is a link for the stripped lower http://www.riflegear.com/p-1647-double-diamond-ar-15-9mm-glock-magazine-lower-receiver.aspx, I bought mine from the mfg but they were not very CS savvy. It uses the ramped bolt for the glock mags, other than that everything else is the same. I'll post a pic from when I finished the build in a few, it's on my phone.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Slpeod

[swim615]

Now your talking I have a sub 2000 that uses the glock 9mm mags and lots of glocks in 9mm as well as a stack of mags from 10 to 33 rounds. I have never built a AR but would definitely learn and do it to be able to use the DDLES Glock 9mm lower. Now if I can find one in stock some where.

Edited September 23, 2014 by swim615

[KKing]

How loud are they? Is there allot of muzzle flash with the shorter barrels?

Guess I can answer this part. Loud Edited January 16, 2015 by KKing

[KKing]

I have never built a AR but would definitely learn and do it to be able to use the DDLES Glock 9mm lower. Now if I can find one in stock some where.

I think you'll find that line to be quite long. If I remember right, DDLES is no more but they were bought out and someone else is supposed to start making the receivers soon.

[Slpeod]

I think you'll find that line to be quite long. If I remember right, DDLES is no more but they were bought out and someone else is supposed to start making the receivers soon.

Exactly what KKing said, I waited right at 10 months for my lower and bolt. I talked to John the owner several times and he was always having problems - mostly self inflicted. Maybe under the new owner it will be different, the product itself though is top notch.

Another alternative is the Lonewolf lower, it doesn't look as good and last time I heard couldn't be bought stripped. Worth checking out though.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Lone Wolf has had issues in the past with magwell dimensions. Mags would not drop free and when asked Lone Wolf said to sand the magwell to open it up. I will admit this was at least 5 years ago so hopefully things are a bit better now.

[Dolomite_supafly]

http://www.pariaharms.com/AR9.php

[KKing]

The only reason I know what I do about DDLES is because the second they become available I will buy more than a couple. I love the look and function of the DDLES Edited September 23, 2014 by KKing

[Slpeod]

http://www.pariaharms.com/AR9.php

Good write up that covers the details of the build.

Swim - if you get one and run it as a pistol just let me know I'll share my specs and build list. I actually have a couple delrin spacers for the buffer tube I sized and turned down - you'll need one.

[swim615]

Ran across a group buy. It is for a Glock Quarter Circle 10 lower (formally DDLES) 9mm pistol. All parts are either QC10 (lower and barrel), CMMG, or Sig. How does this look?

 

 

Barrel lengths available are 5.5, 7.5, or 10.5. Any one better than the other?

 

What else do I need to complete the pistol?

 

Pricing seem ok?

Edited September 27, 2014 by swim615

[Slpeod]

Ran across a group buy. It is for a Glock Quarter Circle 10 lower (formally DDLES) 9mm pistol. All parts are either QC10 (lower and barrel), CMMG, or Sig. How does this look?



Barrel lengths available are 5.5, 7.5, or 10.5. Any one better than the other?

What else do I need to complete the pistol?

Pricing seem ok?

Looks pretty good, only things I see is the hand guard kit what's the weight? You want to keep it as light as possible. Also, the upper - it's just personal preference but not a fan of the 9mm/22 uppers with the shortened ejection port. It takes away the option to convert it for whatever reason - also the 9mm bolt doesn't have cuts in to use the forward assist.

As far as barrel length goes, look at Dolomites post #3 with the ballistics - with the extra 3 inches (7.5 v 10.5) you gain less than 25fps. Just make sure that extra length and weight is what you want. For me it wasn't worth the extra length.

The price looks pretty reasonable I would say do it. Edited September 27, 2014 by Slpeod

[Dolomite_supafly]

The shortened ejection port is nothing but an easily removed plastic block. To swap it out all you need is another ejection port cover. The uppers are standard uppers with the block in place.

 

Now there might be some dedicated uppers out there but I don't ever recall seeing them.

[dcloudy777]

If you're planning to shoot suppressed, the 5.5 is going to do a better job of keeping subsonic rounds subsonic.

 

I have an SBR AR 9mm with a 4.5" barrel... I really like it.