Handgun Carry Condition

[saintsfanbrian]

Beretta carried with one in the chamber safety off and hammer down (Double Action)

1911 (was) carried one in the chamber hammer back safety off.

Glock carried one in the chamber no safety to speak of. Sorry I don't consider that little dink of plastic on the trigger a safety.

XD (not carried yet) but will be carried with one in the chamber.

[Marswolf]

Agreed. And if you put your thumb on top of the slide, over the rear site, that will disengage the grip safety when you are reholstering it.

DAMN! Someone else who has some sense.

[Daniel]

I guess once I get my hcp Ill see how it works after I have time carrying for awhile. ATM I just think im to much of a novice with hg to feel comfortable going 0. Give me an M4 and Id do just fine though.

[Marswolf]

I've never quite understood why people think you must carry a 1911 cocked and locked, but a Glock (or other Glock-like weapon) is just fine without a safety.

[saintsfanbrian]

Junglist,

If you carried a handgun in the military and never shot yourself, you should be okay carrying one in civilian life.

I agree Mars, any firearm that all you have to do is pull the trigger is the same.

With out a round in the chamber I tried my dangedest to get my 1911 to discharge without my hand gripping it. I just couldn't do it. I am sure if I basically broke the thing it would have worked, but I didn't want to do that.

That goes for the Glock also. With out a round in the chamber I have tried to force the trigger back with out depressing that stupid little piece of plastic. Again, it just wasn't going to happen unless I broke the thing.

Unless you are being careless you are not likely to have an AD with a quality made firearm.

[Guest GlockFD]

Well I am probably one of the more novice gun owners here. I bought my first gun last year. I own a glock 22. The main reason I bought the gun was the fact it has no external safety. the intended purpose is for protection. I did not feel I was comfortable enough to depend on a gun that had a manual safety. As time goes on I would like to have a 1911 firearm but that will be later. I do not have a permit yet, so the gun is for home defense only. I go to the range and out to my inlaws to shoot it regularly. With tow young girls at home safety is a big issue in my home. So I keep it in the case in the top of my bed room closet. The slide is open with a fully loaded mag. next to it. I have praticed going to condition zero in total darkness, since that is when I will need it most. if at all. If I am following this right, would this still be condition 2? All I do is slam in the mag and release the slide. I am open to all criticism or comments. But IMO this is the best and safeest way to keep it for now. Oce I have my permit I will rethink how and were it is stored and it will be a no brainer on how to carry it. condition 0!

[Daniel]

dont keep it open. tmk that will wear out your spring.

and to brian,

i was a rifleman and automatic rifleman so i never had a m9. i never had an ad either though.

[Guest price g]

1 and rotate ammo every other month

[Guest GlockFD]

thanks for the advice

[Guest DrBoomBoom]

Condition one or its equivalent (revolver) always.

[strickj]

1 in the pipe with no safety mag toped off is the only way....unless yor this guy than you can carry any darn way you want

[ame]

[/ame]

[Guest Halfpint]

Condition One, with the H&K or the 1911. Condition Two (DAO) with the backup.

Mars and DB, I try showing all my customers that "thumb over the back of the slide" method with anything with a grip safety--most of them are really thankful for the insight.

[Guest 2HOW]

I've never quite understood why people think you must carry a 1911 cocked and locked, but a Glock (or other Glock-like weapon) is just fine without a safety.

Because the single action trigger pull on a 1911 is about 2 lbs, the double action long pull of Glock like pistols are made that way because they dont have a manual safety. Who carrys a 1911 cocked with the safety off?

[Guest 2HOW]

Trigger - The one thing the Glock and the 1911 have in common is that their triggers are their greatest strength and weakness. The "revolutionary" design of the Glock centers on the trigger, the so-called "Safe Action Trigger." The Glock pre-cocks with the cycling of the slide so it can have a much lighter trigger than a true double action gun. In order to increase safety, the Glock was given a very long trigger pull and a little safety flange on the trigger which supposedly functions as a safety–if it isn't depressed the gun won't go off. But given the fact that it's on the trigger, it strikes me as largely superfluous. Aside from this, there are no external safeties on the Glock. If the trigger is pulled, the gun will go off, period. Personally, I find the Glock "Safe Action" scary, and lacking in the backup safety features that I prefer to see on an autoloader. Fans of the "Safe Action" point to the fact that there are no levers with which to fumble in a crisis and compare the Glock to a double action revolver (although very few revolvers have 3 lb. double action triggers). For a combat gun, these are valid points–simplicity translates into speed and keeps Murphy at bay, and light triggers give greater accuracy.

The single action trigger of the 1911 is light, crisp, and short. Since little muscle action is required to break the trigger, trigger control is less of a problem on the 1911 than any double action or "Safe Action" system. Since the trigger pull is so short, rapid fire is easy and fast. And then there's the dark side: for a single action 1911 to be ready for action, it must be carried "cocked and locked," which means hammer cocked and and manual safety on. More than anything else, this looks scary. People have come up with several strategies to avoid the cock and lock, also known as "Condition One." There is the "Israeli Draw" which means the pistol is carried with an empty chamber and charged magazine ("Condition Three"), and is drawn and the slide racked as the gun comes up to fire. Some choose to carry with the hammer down with a round in the chamber (Condition Two). Condition Two is just a bad idea for several reasons, but all of them have to do with the gun going off when you don't expect it to. Some choose simply not to carry the 1911 at all due to their discomfort with Condition One.

In my opinion, the Glock carries in Condition Zero, that is, hammer cocked with no real external safety applied. I don't acknowledge the trigger flange to be a fully functional external safety, and the number of accidental discharges reported on the Glocks tends to bear this out.

My own preference is for the 1911 trigger with its double safety system (manual thumb safety and grip safety). Even if one were to forget to apply the manual safety, the grip safety must be depressed and the trigger pulled for the gun to fire. With that said, the 1911 requires training and practice to be a safe and effective personal defense weapon. The Glock trigger seems long and mushy, and since there are no external safeties other than the trigger flange, it strikes me as being more prone to accidental discharge than the 1911. For target and competitive shooting, the 1911 trigger is my favorite. (this is a good comparison on the subject of carry mode).

[Marswolf]

Because the single action trigger pull on a 1911 is about 2 lbs, the double action long pull of Glock like pistols are made that way because they dont have a manual safety. Who carrys a 1911 cocked with the safety off?

Good grief, that a lot of reading in the second post.

First, none of my many 1911s have ever had a 2# trigger pull. That's pure garbage.

Second, if I carried a 1911, I would always carry with the safety off and ready to fire, just as I always do for any carry weapon. It's something I've thought a lot about, developed, and practiced in now almost 40 years of active duty handgun carry.

[Guest 2HOW]

All I can say is that mine is 2# and you're an exceptional man.

[molonlabetn]

All I can say is that mine is 2# and you're an exceptional man.

Did it come that way from the factory?

Nearly any trigger can be tweaked to very low pull weight... even a Glock.

[Guest GlockFD]

I by no means claim to know it all, but to havean AD with a glock would mean puting your finger inside the trigger gaurd and pulling the trigger, right? If you use good safe practices all the time ie: only put your finger on the trigger once you have identified a target and intend on shooting it, then there should be no concern for an AD, right?

[molonlabetn]

I by no means claim to know it all, but to havean AD with a glock would mean puting your finger inside the trigger gaurd and pulling the trigger, right? If you use good safe practices all the time ie: only put your finger on the trigger once you have identified a target and intend on shooting it, then there should be no concern for an AD, right?

Or, while reholstering, the retention strap, shirt or other debris sticks in the triggerguard...

[Marswolf]

All I can say is that mine is 2# and you're an exceptional man.

Well thank you.

What I have come to understand is that in a bad situation, you will get the trigger pulled - if you don't forget to remove the manual safety. Light trigger pulls don't lead to better combat performance. They just lead to more NDs. But they are appropriate for target use.

My RIA is about 5.5# and my Wilson Combat is 4#.

[Marswolf]

I by no means claim to know it all, but to havean AD with a glock would mean puting your finger inside the trigger gaurd and pulling the trigger, right? If you use good safe practices all the time ie: only put your finger on the trigger once you have identified a target and intend on shooting it, then there should be no concern for an AD, right?

You are of course correct. The problem is that in an actual situation, either day-to-day or critical situations without proper training, and I think that defines most non-professional gun carriers, people tend to go brain-dead and put their finger where it shouldn't be. I've witnessed a ND in a gun shop with an XD. Fortunately no one was hurt. It came from someone wanting to field strip an XD, which except for the additional grip safety is essentially a Glock. The user just forgot there was a round in the chamber when he did the required dry fire (supposedly) to de-cock the weapon.

No, Glocks and XDs and M&Ps won't go off unless you pull the trigger with a round in the chamber. But you can field strip a H&K, or Beretta, or Ruger or most other quality handguns without having to dry fire and they won't ND.

The, in my view, questionable design, seems to have come from two areas. First was the desire to have a cheap-to-manufacture gun, like the Lorcin, Bryco, Jennings, Raven, Davis, etc. I advisedly add Glock and Hi-Point to this list. While their intention was to have a good gun, they also sought, as did Sterling before them, to control costs. Supposed costs to manufacture a Glock are in the $50-70 range.

The second area was to have a gun that did not have a cocked hammer, for law enforcement, that frightened the public. Although the resultant guns were actually at least as dangerous as a 1911 that was cocked and without the safety on, somehow not seeing the cocked hammer made the gun seem safer to the foolish. It also prevented the problem of officers forgetting to remove the manual safety before trying to fire.

The problem is elementally that people do not practice proper trigger safety. That''s a fact people ignore at their own risk, and the risk of others. To me it makes a lot more sense to build in an additionally level of safety rather than just hoping that users will somehow remember to do the smart thing. The newspapers are full of evidence that that often does not happen.

[Mike.357]

FWIW Hi-Points have an external safety

[Marswolf]

FWIW Hi-Points have an external safety

So did Sterlings, but who is counting?

[Guest 2HOW]

Did it come that way from the factory?

Nearly any trigger can be tweaked to very low pull weight... even a Glock.

No mine didnt come that way but I find many are a lot lighter than 4 or 5 lbs. Although the average out of the box is 4-6, perhaps the short pull gives the perception of a lighter trigger?

[strickj]

i hate to amit it but...the closest i came to an AD was field stripping my xd.i removed the mag,racked the slide,but my chambered round did not do as planed.when i started to dry fire to release the slide i stoped and decided to take a third look....and whoops,just like marswolf described.

that is the ONLY thing i dislike anout the xd,having to dry fire to release the slide.