Local High School Attacked for Prayers

[Hershmeister]

Only two of the three links worked for me, but I didn't read anything about threats to the cheerleaders. Did the other article cover that?

No threats were made that I read either


And as often as leroy wants to say its not clear who initiated the prayer, that is not correct. THE PRINCIPAL IS ON RECORD SAYING HE DID

[TMF]

TMF... The "threat" thing is in post #1... I saw nothin in the articles about the threats...

 

Leroy

 

Gotcha.  I only read that once when first posted and forgot he had mentioned that.  Based on other posts I thought there was something in the news I wasn't seeing.

 

I would hope that local LE is investigating any threats, but it's probably safe to assume they're coming from "tolerant" folks in places like NY and CA.

[mav]

I find it amusing how some who often complain about the size and overreach of government want to use that behemoth to intervene on their behalf and put a stop to speech they find offensive. 

 

I know I certainly feel better that my tax dollars are being used to employee bureaucrats who will police such functions to make sure nobody is offended by any religious speech.  ;)

[gregintenn]

No threats were made that I read either


And as often as leroy wants to say its not clear who initiated the prayer, that is not correct. THE PRINCIPAL IS ON RECORD SAYING HE DID

Once again. There isn't a problem with that. The principal isn't a Federal government enforcement agent. There is no law, edict, commandment, etc. which makes it wrong to have a prayer before a game.

 

You can worship Hedy Wienberg and they can worship God. Isn't she Pee Wee Herman's sister, by the way?

[Hershmeister]

Once again. There isn't a problem with that. The principal isn't a Federal government enforcement agent. There is no law, edict, commandment, etc. which makes it wrong to have a prayer before a game.

You can worship Hedy Wienberg and they can worship God. Isn't she Pee Wee Herman's sister, by the way?

Wrong - he is an agent of the government (state, local, federal - does not matter)


And Ms Weinberg seems more closely related to Dr Ruth to me [emoji33]

[gregintenn]

Wrong - he is an agent of the government (state, local, federal - does not matter)


And Ms Weinberg seems more closely related to Dr Ruth to me [emoji33]

Absolutely it makes a difference. As I said in an earlier post, the point of the establishment clause in the first amendment was to prevent the Federal Government from establishing a National (referred to at that time as a "State") religion. When the constitution and bill of rights were enacted, several states had a "State religion".

 

There is a BIG difference between Federal, State, and County governments. The fact the lines are being blurred between them is a large part of our problem today.

 

The federal government has NO business in the education business. I could make an argument that other governments don't either, but I am in the minority on that opinion.

[gregintenn]

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abby_Rubenfeld

 

Sorry. I was incorrect. Abby Rubenfeld is actually Pee Wee Herman's sister. I get my lesbian ACLU lawyers confused.

Edited September 21, 2014 by gregintenn

[Hershmeister]

Absolutely it makes a difference. As I said in an earlier post, the point of the establishment clause in the first amendment was to prevent the Federal Government from establishing a National (referred to at that time as a "State") religion. When the constitution and bill of rights were enacted, several states had a "State religion".

There is a BIG difference between Federal, State, and County governments. The fact the lines are being blurred between them is a large part of our problem today.

The federal government has NO business in the education business. I could make an argument that other governments don't either, but I am in the minority on that opinion.

Sorry but you are incorrect here as well
The 14th amendment has been used by the courts to incorporate most amendments in the bill of rights - ie holding that no one can be denied their enumerated right by the state. This is the same process which the SCOTUS used in the McDonald case.


http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_bor.html

There are critics of this method but it has been used for nearly 100 years.

[R_Bert]

Perhaps we should stone the principal, tie him to a herd of feral goats, and send him into the Pocket Wilderness. That's show him for informing those girls how to exercise their rights.

[DaveTN]

Wrong - he is an agent of the government (state, local, federal - does not matter)


And Ms Weinberg seems more closely related to Dr Ruth to me [emoji33]

 
 

Sorry but you are incorrect here as well
The 14th amendment has been used by the courts to incorporate most amendments in the bill of rights - ie holding that no one can be denied their enumerated right by the state. This is the same process which the SCOTUS used in the McDonald case.


http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_bor.html

There are critics of this method but it has been used for nearly 100 years.

So what’s your point? You think that if in some way shape or form some “government official” made a suggestion and the cheerleaders thought it was good idea, that now they are forever barred from having 1st amendment rights in this matter?

[Rightwinger]

Good grief.  A group of high school folks got together and did what has been TRADITION for hundreds of years and asked publicly for forgiveness if they had wronged anyone, stated they forgave anyone that had done them wrong and were thankful they got to eat.  They thanked their version of providence, but anyone in the crowd could have thanked aliens, the devil, budda or Pee Wee Herman for where they believe it came from. 

 

No one held at gunpoint, no be-headings and NO issues from within the group, only outsiders with the means to propagate their own daily bread by stirring the pot.

 

I think some of you would turn down a bottle of water in the desert if someone said God led them to bring it to you. 

[Hershmeister]

So what’s your point? You think that if in some way shape or form some “government official” made a suggestion and the cheerleaders thought it was good idea, that now they are forever barred from having 1st amendment rights in this matter?

Not at all

Only any occasion in which a school official starts the ball rolling.

[Mike.357]

Good grief.  A group of high school folks got together and did what has been TRADITION for hundreds of years and asked publicly for forgiveness if they had wronged anyone, stated they forgave anyone that had done them wrong and were thankful they got to eat.  They thanked their version of providence, but anyone in the crowd could have thanked aliens, the devil, budda or Pee Wee Herman for where they believe it came from. 

 

No one held at gunpoint, no be-headings and NO issues from within the group, only outsiders with the means to propagate their own daily bread by stirring the pot.

 

I think some of you would turn down a bottle of water in the desert if someone said God led them to bring it to you. 

 

 

so they would let anyone on the field to pray to the Pasta God, Allah, Loki, or whoever?  I doubt this.

[Hershmeister]

[Grand Torino]

Looks like something that's right up your alley.

[McGarrett]

I'm sure there's a lot worse things that high school kids could be doing than praying. If prayer before sporting events is offensive it's always an option to just stay home or plug your ears for a minute or so.

[Mike.357]

typical response.  Do it our way or stay home.

[Oh Shoot]

 

Yeah, I'm a non-practicing Pastafarian myself.

 

 

- OS

[JayC]

And that right there makes it unconstitutional and wrong.  People should be free to pray whenever and where ever the Lord moves them...  but, when a government employee asks students under his charge to pray that is by it's very definition attempting to establish one religious view point over all others...

 

I suspect that if this Principal had asked those students to say a Islamic prayer before the football game, the vast majority of people in that community and on this forum would be outraged and calling for the Principals head on a pike.  And that point being true is what makes this a wrong move.

 

The principal should be fired plain and simple.  If the students want to keep praying their free to do so... as is their right.  

 

There are disagreements between Christians over the exact wording of something as simple as the Lord's Prayer...  let alone other religions... and people who don't believe...

 

And at the end of the day we must respect their rights to practice their religion as they see fit, and not allow the government to force a foreign religion on them...  just like none of us want the government forcing some religion we don't believe in on us. 

 

Yes - see my post above - wbir news story quotes the principal admitting he organized the prayer

 

[McGarrett]

typical response.  Do it our way or stay home.

I just said it was an option. Feel free to do whatever you like.

 

It's kind of like tv, if you don't like what's on you can change the channel or turn it off.

[DaveTN]

The principal should be fired plain and simple.  If the students want to keep praying their free to do so... as is their right.

Had the principal not backed down from the ACLU he should have been given a citizens award. The good news is he won't be fired; the citizens won't allow it. Don't forget who the Constitution was written by and for.

[JayC]

Clearly you've never read the TN state constitution huh?

 

First, even if you were correct that the state constitution didn't have an establishment clause (it does)...  the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution which TN (kinda) ratified after the civil war binds the states to recognize all privileges or immunities under the federal constitution.

 

So while pre-civil war some states did have state religions...  all of that ended once the 14th Amendment was ratified (and in virtually all cases had ended before that).

 

BUT, TN does have a state constitution which prohibits the exact same...

 

Section 3 of the TN Constitution:

 

 

 

that no human authority can, in any case whatever, control or interfere with the rights of conscience; and that no preference shall ever be given, by law, to any religious establishment or mode of worship.

 

So, here we have a government school created by law that is giving preference to a specific religion and a specific mode of worship.  Clear a violation under the TN Constitution as well.

 

Please, if you're going to make an argument please have your facts straight.

 

We have to shed light on this kind of ignorance, or our country and way of life is surely lost.

 

How so is having a prayer before a high school football game a violation of anything?

 

Tennessee's constitution has no such clause, and I doubt seriously Scott county does either.

 

In respect to religion, the first amendment of the U.S. Constitution prohibits the Federal Government from legally establishing a religion. THAT IS THE ENTIRE PURPOSE OF IT!!!!!

 

If you'll study a bit of history, our founding fathers had no problem with States having an official religion.

 

[McGarrett]

I'm thinking this thread may end up being moved to the hive. 

 

I'm going to make popcorn. Be right back.

[R_Bert]

I'll be praying for y'all!

[RED333]

All the wars we have had were started over what we are talking about now.

Many more will be started (some are still going on today) till we all accecpet the fact that,

There is just one race, the Human Race, till then I pray ever day, I thank my God for another day to

be with yall, good, bad, and indifferent, God bless.