Neck Turning Rifle Brass

[Ray Z]

I have been loading for 45+ years. Mostly pistol but a lot of rifle. I have never formed one caliber to another this. I am in the process of forming 243 Win from 308 and find it necessary to neck turn it so it doesn't fit so snug in the chamber. I understand that I need to inside neck turn but need some advice on how and what to use equipment wise. What say guys?

[leroy]

Ray... We did some neck turning years ago; and i think it was either 308 to 243 or 30-06 to 270... We used tools from these guys:

 

http://www.rwhart.com/store/products.asp?cat=23

 

They know as much about this stuff as anybody...

 

Hope this helps a bit...

leroy

[Omega]

I don't neck turn as I only form 300Blk cases from 5.56 brass and they don't need it.  But a friend lent me this: https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0004490401/Hand_Case_Neck_Turner_Kit_With_Quick_Change_Case_Holder_ in case I needed it when I first started.  It takes brass from the outside of the case though, not sure if that is the standard or not.

[Jonnin]

I have no clue, but this seems like something you could do with a drill bit, if you could find one the right size (?).   I mean its just a 1/4 inch of brass that already has a hole so a quick in and out cut to thin right?  

 

*surely* someone has a way to do this; resizing brass has been a cottage industry in the USA since the 60s at least.

[Omega]

I have no clue, but this seems like something you could do with a drill bit, if you could find one the right size (?).   I mean its just a 1/4 inch of brass that already has a hole so a quick in and out cut to thin right?  

 

*surely* someone has a way to do this; resizing brass has been a cottage industry in the USA since the 60s at least.

While you could do it with a dremel tool or drill and bit, these tools are more for consistent necks.  Most reloaders that turn their necks do so for the consistency aspect which these tools help with.  The one I linked above is just a simple tool, the benchrest guys use much more precise tools with micrometers to measure the results.  If you are just plinking the dies that form your case will take care of the inside, you can turn the case with a drill and use a bit of 440 grit sandpaper or steel wool to reduce the thickness enough to chamber.  When I started forming 300Blk cases I bought a gauge to make sure they would chamber correctly.  The best I have seen is the one I bought: http://ballistictools.com/store/reloading-products/sheridan-engineering-300-blk-slotted-gauge but I don't think they make one for a 243, Wilson does but its not as good IMHO.

[Lowpower]

Please do not bubba-size your case necks using a 1/4 drill bit. Only bad things can happen.

 

Why are you trying to downsize .308 cases to .243 when you can just go get .243 cases?

How do you know your case necks are too thick?

 

You run into neck splitting issues unless you anneal the cases. Especially if you go from .308 

to .243 in one step. Once fired brass may be ok to downsize but multiple fired cases harden

and unless annealed they tend to split. And even then once fired case can split during resizing

and when fired from the rifle.  If you don;t anneal the cases corruptly they tend to blow up as

they;re very easy to ruin with heating.

 

You also need to confirm case length is correct after you resize the neck. All case must be cut to the

same length to provide uniformity. 

 

Then again you may want to weigh each case to confirm they have the same amount or brass. Better yet

fill each case with water to confirm each one has the same volume. Different volume equals perhaps different

inside dimensions of the case which can effects how the explosion occurs in the case.  al brass cases are

not created equal. 

 

Asking about the rifle itself. Do you have the dimensions of the chamber from the reamers tool? If not, 

stick some cerrosafe in to the chamber and get the dimensions

.  

Neck sizing is accomplished by cutting the outside of the case neck.  An expanding mandrill is pressed

into the case neck to uniformly push the inside brass outside evenly. Once done you use the case neck 

thickness cutting tool to thin the neck to the desired thickness.  You are doing this for a few reasons. 

One being the bullet being the same diameter being pushed into the sized case neck uniforms the 

grip the has on the bullet and the other is to provide a given diameter which helps the case seal, during 

firing, in the chamber without sticking. You can easily tell a chamber with excessive clearance by looking at

all the blow-by residue outside the neck and back up the shoulder. I use a 21st Century neck cutting tool.

 

Another issue is to ensure the shoulder is set to the correct depth when resizing in the reloading die. 

 

Are you beginning to understand just how anal we long range shooters get when looking for the tightest 

groups at the greatest distances? And we're not looking for exactly that (but we are). We want to 

know that when we break a shot we know exactly where the crosshairs were and can reasonably expect 

that bullet to go where we aimed baring outside interference  like winds, Coriolis effect, light conditions, etc.

 

Now if you just plan to go have fun shooting and go deer hunting the perhaps you might want to trade 

all your excess brass for .243? I bet there are guys on the forum that may be looking to trade brass.

 

Lp

 

Edited to add: 

All cases are not created equal. Some are made with harder brass, thicker brass, softer brass. LC brass

is cheap and known for it's uniformity albeit might be able to hold less powder. Winchester is very good

brass but you must uniform it. You can reload it many times. Federal seems softer and the number of 

reloads may be reduced. I've never been that fond of Remington brass for reloads but will use it in 

my Garand since I expect the rifle to beat up the cases anyway and therefore limit the amount of reloads 

per case. The other other and higher priced brands of which I use Lapua for it's stellar uniformity and 

the number of times I can reload the cases. It costs quite a bit more, in the neighborhood of $60-75

per 100 cases. 

Edited September 18, 2014 by Lowpower

[Ray Z]

Please do not bubba-size your case necks using a 1/4 drill bit. Only bad things can happen.

 

Why are you trying to downsize .308 cases to .243 when you can just go get .243 cases?

How do you know your case necks are too thick?

 

You run into neck splitting issues unless you anneal the cases. Especially if you go from .308 

to .243 in one step. Once fired brass may be ok to downsize but multiple fired cases harden

and unless annealed they tend to split. And even then once fired case can split during resizing

and when fired from the rifle.  If you don;t anneal the cases corruptly they tend to blow up as

they;re very easy to ruin with heating.

 

You also need to confirm case length is correct after you resize the neck. All case must be cut to the

same length to provide uniformity. 

 

Then again you may want to weigh each case to confirm they have the same amount or brass. Better yet

fill each case with water to confirm each one has the same volume. Different volume equals perhaps different

inside dimensions of the case which can effects how the explosion occurs in the case.  al brass cases are

not created equal. 

 

Asking about the rifle itself. Do you have the dimensions of the chamber from the reamers tool? If not, 

stick some cerrosafe in to the chamber and get the dimensions

.  

Neck sizing is accomplished by cutting the outside of the case neck.  An expanding mandrill is pressed

into the case neck to uniformly push the inside brass outside evenly. Once done you use the case neck 

thickness cutting tool to thin the neck to the desired thickness.  You are doing this for a few reasons. 

One being the bullet being the same diameter being pushed into the sized case neck uniforms the 

grip the has on the bullet and the other is to provide a given diameter which helps the case seal, during 

firing, in the chamber without sticking. You can easily tell a chamber with excessive clearance by looking at

all the blow-by residue outside the neck and back up the shoulder. I use a 21st Century neck cutting tool.

 

Another issue is to ensure the shoulder is set to the correct depth when resizing in the reloading die. 

 

Are you beginning to understand just how anal we long range shooters get when looking for the tightest 

groups at the greatest distances? And we're not looking for exactly that (but we are). We want to 

know that when we break a shot we know exactly where the crosshairs were and can reasonably expect 

that bullet to go where we aimed baring outside interference  like winds, Coriolis effect, light conditions, etc.

 

Now if you just plan to go have fun shooting and go deer hunting the perhaps you might want to trade 

all your excess brass for .243? I bet there are guys on the forum that may be looking to trade brass.

 

Lp

 

Edited to add: 

All cases are not created equal. Some are made with harder brass, thicker brass, softer brass. LC brass

is cheap and known for it's uniformity albeit might be able to hold less powder. Winchester is very good

brass but you must uniform it. You can reload it many times. Federal seems softer and the number of 

reloads may be reduced. I've never been that fond of Remington brass for reloads but will use it in 

my Garand since I expect the rifle to beat up the cases anyway and therefore limit the amount of reloads 

per case. The other other and higher priced brands of which I use Lapua for it's stellar uniformity and 

the number of times I can reload the cases. It costs quite a bit more, in the neighborhood of $60-75

per 100 cases. 

I tried to get some once fired 243 brass with no real success. The only way I can get brass for my grandsons rifle is this way or buy new unfired brass. He's 9 and wants to go deer hunting with dad.

 

You're suggesting that I put a mandrel through the neck then outside neck turn it, correct? If so what size and where should I get it?

[Lowpower]

Ray Z,

 

I just got home from work so sorry for the time to respond.

 

I'm sorry to say I had tons of .243 brass and gave away probably 500 cases.

 

Here's what neck turning tools look like. The 1st is the one I use.

 

http://www.21stcenturyshooting.com/Neck_Turning_Tool.php

 

The 2nd shows you cutting with the brass on the mandrel and the cutter doing it job.

 

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/neck-turning-tool-cutting-tips/

[Jonnin]

I tried to get some once fired 243 brass with no real success. The only way I can get brass for my grandsons rifle is this way or buy new unfired brass. He's 9 and wants to go deer hunting with dad.

 

You're suggesting that I put a mandrel through the neck then outside neck turn it, correct? If so what size and where should I get it?

 

I would actually just suggest you buy 2 boxes of 243 ammo and save the cases.    Having done brass conversion, just to do it for the experience, its not practical for reasons already listed (its hard on the brass and does not last as long before splits, takes a lot of effort per case, costs extra hardware,  etc).   If you just want to do it for the sake of doing it to learn about the process, carry on.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Jonnin

[Clod Stomper]

I probably have some .243 brass  you can have.  Next time I get home, I'll scrounge up what I have.  PM me your number and I'll let you know when I'm coming.

 

Like Jonnin said, it's more worthwhile to buy ammo or cases for common rounds.  I've formed a few different rounds.  Some because I had to and some because I just wanted to.  

 

The cases do tend to split sooner (I think annealing may alleviate that), you have to make sure the shoulder is set back enough, which may require trimming down a shellholder (shouldn't be a problem going from .308 to .243), and the problem you ran into, necking down makes the case neck thicker.

 

Let me know.  I doubt I'll shoot much .243 anytime soon and I have a little brass.  You're welcome to it.

 

 

 

Edit:  Oops.  What Lowpower said as well.  He's obviously formed a lot more cases than I have.

Edited September 20, 2014 by Clod Stomper

[Lowpower]

When CS said he had some .243 brass it hit me that last week at the range a guy handed me a box of Barnes VOR-TX

.243 brass that he just shot but doesn't reload. The box has 19 cases in it which might get you started. 

PM me an addy and I'll mail them over to you. 

 

If you know anyone who has any .30-30 brass they lyin' around and don't need anymore please ask them to pm me. 

 

The guy also handed me a box with 7 cases of the same ammo but .338 win mag. I figure they're costly as all git out to

buy and someone shooting them probably reloads to save money. If anyone needs them for they're own use just pm me. 

 

Either way the .243 brass is yours if you want it. 

 

Lp

 

Edited to add: I use .30-06 and .270 brass that I anneal and neck down to 6.5 which is a flat shooting caliber as 6.5-06.

I then shoot the brass 5X and neck size only then do a full size for the 6th reload. The case is fire formed to your chamber.

However, since it's the first time fired in your gun you might check the case length as they have a tendency to stretch when

fired formed to your rifle. If you have to trim them then do a batch at a time. You shouldn't have to do any more trimming.

Make sure you lube the cases when full length sizing the cases but too much lube causes pushed in dimples in the cases.

I don't think I've ever used case lube on pistol cases.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Lowpower

[Clod Stomper]

How is the case-forming going?  I dug out my .243 brass.  I have 20+ empty cases that I'll give you.  Also have some factory loaded ammo that you can have cheap.

 

Let me know.

[Luke E.]

I see you have had a few offers of .243 brass already but if they didn't work out or weren't enough shoot me a pm as I've got more .243 brass than i'll ever shoot out and would be happy to send you some if you wanted. Pretty much all the .243 brass that I have is once fired and the ones that have been fired more than once are ones that I have fire formed and don't want to get rid of anyways.

[Ray Z]

Hey guys

 

I really appreciate your offers for the brass. If you'll shoot me a pm with how much I can send you, I'll send you a money order. Thanks for your help.

 

Ray

[Luke E.]

Hey guys

 

I really appreciate your offers for the brass. If you'll shoot me a pm with how much I can send you, I'll send you a money order. Thanks for your help.

 

Ray

 

 I don't need any money from you. Just PM me the address that you want me to send them to and I'll get them shipped out this week.

[Ray Z]

 I don't need any money from you. Just PM me the address that you want me to send them to and I'll get them shipped out this week.

PM Sent

[DWARREN123]

This what I like about TGO, people always willing to help each other out!   :up: