carry on Sunday?

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Sure, if by rebel you mean "someone who has a sense of self preservation." And you will not be prosecuted for carrying in a place that serves alcohol if, while carrying in such a place, you fire in justifiable self defense. It's one of the laws that actually makes sense:

39-17-1322. Defenses

A person shall not be charged with or convicted of a violation under this part if the person possessed, displayed or employed a handgun in justifiable self-defense or in justifiable defense of another during the commission of a crime in which that person or the other person defended was a victim.

So wait... you can technically "illegally" carry your firearm into a place serving alcohol, but as long as you use it in a legally defensive nature you are perfectly safe from prosecution?

Did Dr. Seuss write a law book that I missed growing up?

[Guest Rugerman]

Can we ask how you know its ok to carry in those establishments? Since this entire discussion is about the clarity of that very law.

Because I read the law as you can't carry in a place that is serving alcohol for consumption. Well, if it is illegal to serve alcohol in said establishment, it is legal for me to carry there.

[Guest Revelator]

Because I read the law as you can't carry in a place that is serving alcohol for consumption. Well, if it is illegal to serve alcohol in said establishment, it is legal for me to carry there.

Whooo, here we go again. I think it's time for a cold one.

[Guest bkelm18]

Because I read the law as you can't carry in a place that is serving alcohol for consumption. Well, if it is illegal to serve alcohol in said establishment, it is legal for me to carry there.

Okie dokie. I'm glad at least someone here is an expert at reading the law. I just hope the courts agree with your interpretation.

[wjh2657]

Does a saloon become a church because it is Sunday? Or is it still a saloon? I don't think I would risk prison and/or losing my HCP forever (felony conviction) just because I was trying to test the law. I think it would depend a lot on just how important it was to the local prosecutor to get a conviction. If he wanted one hard enough I"m pretty sure you would lose. Lawyers do funny things with "intent" of the law, regardless of the wording.

I don't normally carry inside a restaurant anyways. I have evaluated every place I eat at and have come to the conclusion that the people are packed in too tight. It is an almost certainty that some of the slugs are going to over penetrate and take out an innocent bystander. With my luck it would be some kid or a pregnant mother of five! Just my

[wjh2657]

Does a saloon become a church because it is Sunday? Or is it still a saloon? I don't think I would risk prison and/or losing my HCP forever (felony conviction) just because I was trying to test the law. I think it would depend a lot on just how important it was to the local prosecutor to get a conviction. If he wanted one hard enough I"m pretty sure you would lose. Lawyers do funny things with "intent" of the law, regardless of the wording.

I don't normally carry inside a restaurant anyways. I have evaluated every place I eat at and have come to the conclusion that the people are packed in too tight. It is an almost certainty that some of the slugs are going to over penetrate and take out an innocent bystander. With my luck it would be some kid or a pregnant mother of five!

Just my own call, not necessarily preaching the point.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Does a saloon become a church because it is Sunday? Or is it still a saloon?

Here's a twist to your question... I'll play devil's advocate here.

Does a church become a saloon on Sunday?

If they serve communion, and it's real wine and not grape juice (Go Catholics!), can you legally still carry in the church?

After all... by definition of the law, they are "serving alcohol for consumption".

[Oh Shoot]

Does a saloon become a church because it is Sunday? Or is it still a saloon? I don't think I would risk prison and/or losing my HCP forever (felony conviction) just because I was trying to test the law. ...

Violating the "saloon carry" is not a felony.

- OS

[Oh Shoot]

Here's a twist to your question... I'll play devil's advocate here.

Does a church become a saloon on Sunday?

If they serve communion, and it's real wine and not grape juice (Go Catholics!), can you legally still carry in the church?

After all... by definition of the law, they are "serving alcohol for consumption".

Not Catholic are ya?

One word: transubstantiation.

The wine is no longer wine by the time it is served; it has literally changed into the blood of Christ.

- OS

[Punisher84]

See this is how people go to jail for murder when it's clear cut self-defense. Interpretation of laws and words. Give me a law that reads:

If you ain't drinking, carry your gun. If you is drinking, give your gun to the fella you trust that ain't.

If you is attacked, kill that sum bitch. We send a van fer the body!

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Not Catholic are ya?

One word: transubstantiation.

The wine is no longer wine by the time it is served; it has literally changed into the blood of Christ.

- OS

Somehow I don't think the State would buy the transubstantiation theory, as they could easily perform a test and detect alcohol content. So tossing all religious beliefs aside, and looking purely at facts, would serving communion technically prohibit one from carrying? It's an interesting question.

And, no, I'm not Catholic. However, I am well versed on their religion as I attented a Catholic private school from K - 5 grades, and then again my senior year of HS. Every day was mandatory mass, as well as religion class. Hell, I sadly scored higher than 95% of their students (Catholics) when it came to their religion studies.

[Oh Shoot]

Somehow I don't think the State would buy the transubstantiation theory, as they could easily perform a test and detect alcohol content. ....

I was of course being facetious; enjoy pointing out the magic and fairy tales associated with the different religions...

Though I'm not a lawyer, I'd bet most of my farm that no one will ever be charged for breaking the boozehouse law by carrying in church during communion.

- OS

[Fallguy]

I think it goes back to "served"

Alcohol is simply not served in that restaurant on that day.

However violation of 39-17-1305 is a misdemeanor not a felony.

[Guest canynracer]

Maybe just a minor difference anyway, but you could argue that "are served" means "are being served," as in right now, in the present, etc. If it's Sunday and they can't serve, then it's no longer a place where alcoholic beverages are served. But it's kind of an interesting question. Does simply having a liquor license preclude carrying, or does a "dry" law like the one originally posted give some kind of exception/defense. This sort of question has been raised also when it comes to places that don't sell it but allow you to bring your own bottle. Is that a place where alcohol is "served?" They allow you to carry it in and drink it, but is it "serving?"

then it goes back to my other question...

I can say the same by asking this..."If I go to a resturant that serves alcohol, and I am the ONLY one there...can I carry?"

OR

"If I go to a restuarant and NOBODY is drinking, can I carry?"

the answer is no.

OR,

If I go to breakfast at 8am, everyone there is eating and drinking coffee, nobody is drinking alcohol....

see I dont think the courts will think otherwise...I am pretty sure you're screwed IF caught

Edited October 22, 2008 by canynracer

[Fallguy]

But at breakfast it could be served, on Sunday it can not.

I understand what you are saying about being the only in there or the fact that no one is currently drinking alcohol, but the other 6 days of the week they could...so alcohol is available to be served. However on Sunday it is not even available to be served. Yes it is in the building, but as we know it is not illegal to carry where alcohol is simply located.

Edited October 23, 2008 by Fallguy

[Guest Revelator]

But at breakfast it could be served, on Sunday that can not.

I understand what you are saying about being the only in there or the fact that no one is currently drinking alcohol, but the other 6 days of the week they could...so alcohol is available to be served. However on Sunday it is not even available to be served. Yes it is in the building, but as we know it is not legal to carry where alcohol is simply located.

Did you mean "not illegal to carry where..."

[Guest canynracer]

But at breakfast it could be served, on Sunday that can not.

I understand what you are saying about being the only in there or the fact that no one is currently drinking alcohol, but the other 6 days of the week they could...so alcohol is available to be served. However on Sunday it is not even available to be served. Yes it is in the building, but as we know it is not legal to carry where alcohol is simply located.

Good point....

[Fallguy]

Did you mean "not illegal to carry where..."

Yes I did....oops:foot:

Post corrected

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

I got a phone call from the Rhea county sheriff and heres what he said, yes I can carry on Sunday, and he told me this he just got done with a class on this in Chattanooga. They told him you can carry in a establishments that serve alcohol, as long as you stay out of the bar area. I said are you sure? He said yes, now he said that might only be in Chattanooga. He will be checking in to it and will give me a call.

[Fallguy]

I got a phone call from the Rhea county sheriff and heres what he said, yes I can carry on Sunday, and he told me this he just got done with a class on this in Chattanooga. They told him you can carry in a establishments that serve alcohol, as long as you stay out of the bar area. I said are you sure? He said yes, now he said that might only be in Chattanooga. He will be checking in to it and will give me a call.

That last part may be true, if only the bar is licensed to sell alcohol for onsite consumption and the restaurant is not.

I say may, because I have seen when they do Health Dept scores of giving a different one to the bar area and restaurant.

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

That last part may be true, if only the bar is licensed to sell alcohol for onsite consumption and the restaurant is not.

I say may, because I have seen when they do Health Dept scores of giving a different one to the bar area and restaurant.

He said restaurants like Red lobster and Oliver Garden thats why I said are you sure..

[Fallguy]

It'll be interesting to hear what he says when he gets back with you.

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

It'll be interesting to hear what he says when he gets back with you.

I told him I would like to have something officially with this on paper so I could keep it in my wallet. He said he will see what he can do. Ive been friends with this sheriff since i was about 20 years old, now hes only been the sheriff here for 8 year. But I'll keep you informed.

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

I went to the guy that gives the carry permit classes here in Rhea county and ask him about what the Sheriff said and he said yes you can goto restaurants like Red lobster and Oliver Garden and carry, as long as you don't goto the bar area. Now this guy gives the classes so you would think he knows what hes talking about I guess. My wife is going to be going to him to get her certificate to be able to get her permit. He said I can seat in on the class. So thats what I'm planing on doing..

[Oh Shoot]

I went to the guy that gives the carry permit classes here in Rhea county and ask him about what the Sheriff said and he said yes you can goto restaurants like Red lobster and Oliver Garden and carry, as long as you don't goto the bar area. Now this guy gives the classes so you would think he knows what hes talking about I guess. My wife is going to be going to him to get her certificate to be able to get her permit. He said I can seat in on the class. So thats what I'm planing on doing..

Well, he is obviously full of it, but hey, sounds cool for Rhea country.

Of course, there are lots of places that serve beer that don't have a bar area at all.

- OS