carry on Sunday?

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

I live in Rhea county and its a dry county on Sunday. I went to a restaurant today to eat and they don't serve alcohol on Sunday. Can I carry my handgun in to this restaurant to eat just on Sunday?

[Fallguy]

That's a good question....my first reaction is to say Yes. Because the law doesn't say anything about not being able to carry in a place that has a license to sell alcoholic beverages. Only that you can't carry in a places that is serving alcohol for onsite consumption...and they aren't serving any at that time.

It will be interesting to here other's opinions....espcially the resident lawyers...

[Guest canynracer]

UMmmmmm.......I would say no...The establishment still serves for onsight consuption, I dont think the hours matter...the alcohol is there, and can be served...

those are my thoughts, but I am sure Fallguy will be here shortly....

[Guest canynracer]

:wall:OR..he will beat me to the answer..!!!

[Guest canynracer]

That's a good question....my first reaction is to say Yes. Because the law doesn't say anything about not being able to carry in a place that has a license to sell alcoholic beverages. Only that you can't carry in a places that is serving alcohol for onsite consumption...and they aren't serving any at that time.

It will be interesting to here other's opinions....espcially the resident lawyers...

If we do look at the letter of the law, we cant change the tense of the verb...it says serves

the resturaunt still technically SERVES for onsite consuption...they are just not serving at that moment...

I can say the same by asking this..."If I go to a resturant that serves alcohol, and I am the ONLY one there...can I carry?"

OR

"If I go to a restuarant and NOBODY is drinking, can I carry?"

the answer is no.

Edited October 20, 2008 by canynracer

[Fallguy]

I see what you are saying about the tense of the verb...and you are right that the law say "serves", but does that mean that the place is off-limits 24/7, even when alcohol can not legally be served? I'm not sure if does or doesn't.

It seems the intent of the law is not to have people drinking alcohol in the same room where someone may have a handgun. Well since they can't legally serve alcohol at that time....that is not going to happen. Of course I also admit intent doesn't mean anything compared to what the words actually say.

[Guest canynracer]

I agree...we need a laywer!!!! PATRICK!!!!

[bteague2]

I asked this a long time ago, I wish my response had been half as couteous as the ones you got... the warning I got is still worth it.

[Guest bkelm18]

I agree that the tense of the verb makes this a bit unclear. My gut tells me that it means that it doesn't matter if the establishment is currently "serving" alcohol, but whether or not it "serves" alcohol, which, would in turn mean that you can't carry in a place that you has a license to serve alcohol. Is there no AG opinion on this matter?

[Guest db99wj]

Here's a thought, not saying it is a correct thought, but a thought nonetheless! Ok, the establishment, can't serve alcohol on Sundays, even if they wanted too, so no matter if there was a 100 people in there, wanting to drink, the bar had all the drink they could handle, it is not legal to "serve" alcohol in the establishment on that day, Sunday. So it appears that the establishment, while serving Monday through Saturday, does not serve alcohol for on site consumption on Sunday because it is illegal , thus allows you to carry your firearm, only on Sunday.

But I am not a lawyer.

[Guest bkelm18]

Here's a thought, not saying it is a correct thought, but a thought nonetheless! Ok, the establishment, can't serve alcohol on Sundays, even if they wanted too, so no matter if there was a 100 people in there, wanting to drink, the bar had all the drink they could handle, it is not legal to "serve" alcohol in the establishment on that day, Sunday. So it appears that the establishment, while serving Monday through Saturday, does not serve alcohol for on site consumption on Sunday because it is illegal , thus allows you to carry your firearm, only on Sunday.

But I am not a lawyer.

I like your line of thinking and hope thats the case, however the law simply says "serves". It doesn't specify if they are currently serving or not. Maybe someone in the know should submit for an AG opinion? The worst that could happen is that he'd say no and we'd still be where we started.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

I agree that the tense of the verb makes this a bit unclear. My gut tells me that it means that it doesn't matter if the establishment is currently "serving" alcohol, but whether or not it "serves" alcohol, which, would in turn mean that you can't carry in a place that you has a license to serve alcohol.

+1

Although it doesn't matter to me... KY allows me to carry anywhere that serves alcohol, provided that the business doesn't make more than 50% of revenue from alcohol sales.

[Guest db99wj]

+1

Although it doesn't matter to me... KY allows me to carry anywhere that serves alcohol, provided that the business doesn't make more than 50% of revenue from alcohol sales.

I love that law. Yes we need a table for 4 and a YTD financial statement....

[Guest Verbal Kint]

[saintsfanbrian]

Shouldn't it be the other way around - we need a YTD financial statement and then a table for 4 depending?

[Guest Revelator]

I really have no idea here. bkelm may be right in that if the place simply has a license to serve, you cannot carry at any time. But fallguy has a point in that you have to look at the legislative intent, and in this case the intent is to keep alcohol drinkers and guns seperated...well if no one can drink, what's the problem? (And Steve, I would give more credit to the intent of the law--it's the best place to go when you can't figure out what the law's actually saying.)

I just looked up the law and noticed something. Those of you who said the law reads "serves," are we looking at the same law? I'm looking at the TCA 39-17-1305 on Michie and it says "served:"

39-17-1305. Possession of firearm where alcoholic beverages are served.

(a) It is an offense for a person to possess a firearm within the confines of a building open to the public where liquor, wine or other alcoholic beverages, as defined in § 57-3-101(a)(1)(A), or beer, as defined in § 57-6-102(1), are served for on premises consumption

Does one of us not have the current version, or are you misreading it? Maybe just a minor difference anyway, but you could argue that "are served" means "are being served," as in right now, in the present, etc. If it's Sunday and they can't serve, then it's no longer a place where alcoholic beverages are served. But it's kind of an interesting question. Does simply having a liquor license preclude carrying, or does a "dry" law like the one originally posted give some kind of exception/defense. This sort of question has been raised also when it comes to places that don't sell it but allow you to bring your own bottle. Is that a place where alcohol is "served?" They allow you to carry it in and drink it, but is it "serving?"

[Guest bkelm18]

I really have no idea here. bkelm may be right in that if the place simply has a license to serve, you cannot carry at any time. But fallguy has a point in that you have to look at the legislative intent, and in this case the intent is to keep alcohol drinkers and guns seperated...well if no one can drink, what's the problem? (And Steve, I would give more credit to the intent of the law--it's the best place to go when you can't figure out what the law's actually saying.)

I just looked up the law and noticed something. Those of you who said the law reads "serves," are we looking at the same law? I'm looking at the TCA 39-17-1305 on Michie and it says "served:"

39-17-1305. Possession of firearm where alcoholic beverages are served.

(a) It is an offense for a person to possess a firearm within the confines of a building open to the public where liquor, wine or other alcoholic beverages, as defined in § 57-3-101(a)(1)(A), or beer, as defined in § 57-6-102(1), are served for on premises consumption

Does one of us not have the current version, or are you misreading it? Maybe just a minor difference anyway, but you could argue that "are served" means "are being served," as in right now, in the present, etc. If it's Sunday and they can't serve, then it's no longer a place where alcoholic beverages are served. But it's kind of an interesting question. Does simply having a liquor license preclude carrying, or does a "dry" law like the one originally posted give some kind of exception/defense. This sort of question has been raised also when it comes to places that don't sell it but allow you to bring your own bottle. Is that a place where alcohol is "served?" They allow you to carry it in and drink it, but is it "serving?"

Yes sire, you are correct. I was just misremembering. It's "served", not "serves". King Naifeh probably giggles like a little girl and touches himself when he sees these discussions on the ambiguity of carry laws.

[Fallguy]

DAS you are exactly right and I think you found the key.

I also agree on legislative intent, I see the AG using that language all the time in his opinions.

[DavidD]

.......King Naifeh probably giggles like a little girl and touches himself when he sees these discussions on the ambiguity of carry laws.

[Guest Rugerman]

In dayton, on sundays, I carry in resturaunts. It is illegal for the drinks to be served, so the establishment on sunday's is not a place where alcholic beverages are served, so it is ok for me to carry. I will take the lead in submitting this to the AG if anyone wants.

[Guest bkelm18]

In dayton, on sundays, I carry in resturaunts. It is illegal for the drinks to be served, so the establishment on sunday's is not a place where alcholic beverages are served, so it is ok for me to carry. I will take the lead in submitting this to the AG if anyone wants.

Can we ask how you know its ok to carry in those establishments? Since this entire discussion is about the clarity of that very law.

[Guest nraforlife]

Ask Naifeh

[Guest bkelm18]

Ask Naifeh

That's probably the only way we'll get a "clear" answer.

[ninja128]

I know one thing is clear. If someone comes into a restaurant that I'm sitting in and starts shooting up the place............law or no law...wrong or right..I'm shooting back.

Kind of a rebel..huh?

[Guest Revelator]

Sure, if by rebel you mean "someone who has a sense of self preservation." And you will not be prosecuted for carrying in a place that serves alcohol if, while carrying in such a place, you fire in justifiable self defense. It's one of the laws that actually makes sense:

39-17-1322. Defenses

A person shall not be charged with or convicted of a violation under this part if the person possessed, displayed or employed a handgun in justifiable self-defense or in justifiable defense of another during the commission of a crime in which that person or the other person defended was a victim.