9mm combat/carry perfection?

[graycrait]

Ruger came out with the LC9S and it has a nice trigger.  S&W has the Shield with its OK weight x ergonomics. Most that know me on this forum also know I have tried many 9mm pistols and several 9mm revolvers for self defense.  The last nice 9mm SD pistol I had was a Beretta PX4, but it was "thick."  My baseline is the H&K P7 as a carry gun.  The problem is that after an injury I have sympathetic trigger finger pull when I squeeze the P7 "safety."  So, I made a Glock to point and have a trigger as close to a custom P7 as possible.  However, that was 8 or 9 years ago.   I can't believe that there hasn't been a quantum leap in 9mm self defense pistols.   

[TNWNGR]

I'm so-so on the P-7 as it doesn't feel natural to me and I distrust the elaborate mechanics involved. Its also a bit noisy when pressed into firing mode. Still it works rather well. I'm also rather ambivalent about Glock's, even though I've trained extensively with them and carried several over the years as POW duty/off duty and later departmentally issued sidearms.

 

What I really like is a good P-35 BHP or nice shooting 1911 GM or nice 1960's 1970's vintage S&W revolvers. Still with all that aside have you tried an SA XDs 9? If not then do so as it has good ergonomics and a fairly nice trigger. It doesn't have the double-decker slide feel of the other SA pistols. Should the 3.3" barrel be too stubby a 4" is available.

 

I'm rather taken with the XDs 9 I have, enough so to be considering on in .45ACP with a 4" BBL for winter carry. I also like the factory FO FS set up as well.

[nightrunner]

Boberg xr9s

[TN-popo]

My baseline for a combat handgun is a Glock 19 (and is still my choice).

 

However, IMO, the Walther PPQ M2 has stepped up to the next level with better ergos and a much better trigger (in fact, the best polymer gun trigger that I've ever felt).

And it's been around long enough that it's proven itself reliable.

 

The SIG P320 shows promise as well, but needs more time to be "wrung-out."

If it proves to be reliable, I'd put it at the next level for the same reasons as the PPQ.

 

Other than these two guns, I agree with you.

Edited September 11, 2014 by TN-popo

[hipower]

I'd agree with pretty much all TN-popo said. It's hard to beat the Glock 19 as just an all around great choice.

 

My differences would be on the PPQ and the Sig 320.

 

While and excellent pistol...I think the PPQ is just too big for my choice. And the example of the 320 I found was off on size, as well as having one of the worst triggers I've felt in years. Perhaps it was just that particular one, but time and sales will tell.

[TN-popo]

I'd agree with pretty much all TN-popo said. It's hard to beat the Glock 19 as just an all around great choice.

 

My differences would be on the PPQ and the Sig 320.

 

While and excellent pistol...I think the PPQ is just too big for my choice. And the example of the 320 I found was off on size, as well as having one of the worst triggers I've felt in years. Perhaps it was just that particular one, but time and sales will tell.

 

Regarding the PPQ, agreed.  I was focusing on the "combat" more than the "carry" when I posted.  Truthfully, I carry a J-frame more than I carry a Glock.

 

As to the P320, admittedly, I've got no live-fire trigger-time with it.  I've dryfired 2 different ones (the triggers were both excellent and better than Glock) and I was taken with the ergos.

However, Steelharp posted a similar comment as yours about the P320's trigger when he tried it.

Doesn't exactly instill confidence... that's why I added the "needs to be wrung-out" comment.  Apparently the P320 trigger varies wildly from gun to gun.

Edited September 11, 2014 by TN-popo

[Jonnin]

Ruger came out with the LC9S and it has a nice trigger.  S&W has the Shield with its OK weight x ergonomics. Most that know me on this forum also know I have tried many 9mm pistols and several 9mm revolvers for self defense.  The last nice 9mm SD pistol I had was a Beretta PX4, but it was "thick."  My baseline is the H&K P7 as a carry gun.  The problem is that after an injury I have sympathetic trigger finger pull when I squeeze the P7 "safety."  So, I made a Glock to point and have a trigger as close to a custom P7 as possible.  However, that was 8 or 9 years ago.   I can't believe that there hasn't been a quantum leap in 9mm self defense pistols.   

 

what quantum leap are you thinking should happen?  You have micro 9mms that are really beefed up micro 380 frames -- they have low capacity but hold more than a revolver & reload easier while taking up far less real estate.  And you have bigger stuff that holds more in every flavor under the sun.  As other said you can run a glock 17 or 19 with any size mag from 10 to 30+  but they are large and fat.  They could make something odd like a doublestack pocket sized to get 10 or 12 rounds in a micro but that seems unpopular.    Getting away from the L gun shapes you could make a palm pistol or something but those sorts of things have a stigma ("assassin pistols").   Same for "derringers" (which are silly anyway since close to same size as the 380 frames that hold 4 times more).   50+ years later there is still a stigma for "sat night special" designs and "zip guns".

 

there may not be a quantum leap to be had due to the customer base.   

- it has to be so big to hold comfortably and messing with the shape requires a lot of engineering and costs with a big risk of a poor seller.

- the more ammo you stuff in it, the bigger it is

- too short a barrel cuts the velocity/energy significantly

- electrical augmentation would be sweet but then ppl would bitch about it having a dead battery in an emergency in spite of modern batteries that last decades (remotes, watches, etc).  Think a true touch-trigger -- like a microwave or whatever touch button -- and a motor does the work. LOTS of things you could do THERE but again it would not fly with the community.   

- going lighter is very expensive (titanium, for example) and increases recoil issues.

 

so there are multiple things we could DO if you wanted a $50k gun.  But most ppl want a $500ish gun. 

Edited September 11, 2014 by Jonnin

[hipower]

Dang...put me in the same sentence with Steelharp? That's cruel...to him. lol

Seriously though, I just wasn't impressed with the fit of the 320 and my hand. Just didn't seem to work for me.

But as you say, the PPQ is just short of awesome for handling. I've been tempted to just buy one and be done with it. But I just can't bring another gun in now. My wife would quite literally have a caniption style fit on me.

[Smith]

I can't say enough good things about the PPQ. Same size as the G19 with far better ergonomics and the best trigger in a DA striker fired gun I've ever felt. Even with other guns trigger jobs the PPQ is better IMO.

 

As far as carry, the love I have for the PPQ has me looking at the Walther CCP. The CCP employs a recoil system much like the P7. 

[Jonnin]

yea I am not a walther fan at all but the PPQ is a nice design -- they did something right there.

[McGarrett]

Smith 5906

[dcloudy777]

Combat : CZ SP01.

 

Carry: HK P7M8.  It sucks that you can't make the system work because of  your injury... nothing else is ever going to have the same level of safety with as good of a trigger.

 

As for "quantum leaps"... there hasn't been one in firearms design period in several decades.  :down:

 

IMHO, we've pretty much gone as far as we're going to go with metallic-cased cartridges and nitrocellulose propellant.

Edited September 11, 2014 by dcloudy777

[thundersnow]

Sig p230 not left hand friendly... Do love my 938 for carry!

[LawVol]

I'm not a Glock guy, but I've always thought that the G19 is the perfect size for just about any application.  

 

For me, the P2000 with a flat mag base is close, but gives up a couple rounds to the 19.  My P7, which I carry a lot, is pretty much the same size as 19 but comes at the cost of a lot more weight and lot less capacity.  

[Steelharp]

I can't say enough good things about the PPQ. Same size as the G19 with far better ergonomics and the best trigger in a DA striker fired gun I've ever felt. Even with other guns trigger jobs the PPQ is better IMO.

 

As far as carry, the love I have for the PPQ has me looking at the Walther CCP. The CCP employs a recoil system much like the P7. 

This. It is the best. Having said that... I still G19 it.

And I don't know why. lol

[Jonnin]

I'm not a Glock guy, but I've always thought that the G19 is the perfect size for just about any application.  

 

 

Shove one in your pocket and get back to me on that :P

 

the 17 and 19 are solid picks outside of deep concealment.  They work.  Glock was a quantum leap when it came out.  

 

I disagree about the "as far as we can go" with powder and metallic cartridges as well.   There is an upper limit on that technology but we have not even scratched it.  Many, many cartridges run at a relatively low pressure for their case capacity.  And modern powder is not made to the highest possible mix either.  All told it would not surprise me that if tomorrow someone found a way to make CHEAP chambers/barrels/hardware that could withstand the pressure,  within a few years we could get magnum performance out of existing small rounds (9mm, maybe even 380 could probably bypass 357 if we removed the danger of blowing up a gun).  With the strongest propellant and explosive primer we can make with modern chemistry we could probably triple the pressure spike and punch the rounds out supersonic.   It would be harsh recoiling, loud, overkill, and generally undesirable.  And lets face it -- if someone found a way to make transparent aluminum or whatever for the chamber, it would cost an arm and a leg for a long time to come.....    I can already put a triple charge in many, many cases.  I don't do it because I only have a steel chamber and no replacement face. 

Edited September 11, 2014 by Jonnin

[McGarrett]

The 5906 is tough as a pine knot and can be used as a club if you run out of ammo. I have become fond of carrying the 5906 instead of it just being a "truck gun". When I go on service calls for work I have been carrying it. instead of my USP40. It's a little smaller and I don't have to worry about it as much. I am thinking about some night sights and a different grip.

 

It's the only 9mm I currently own so I could not comment on much else. I do have a Glock 27 with a Lone Wolf 9mm conversion barrel but I did not really count that. I like my Glocks but they are all .40. The 27 with the 9mm barrel is sweet but I'm not sure I would carry it with the conversion barrel.

 

Quantum Leap was an ok show but I did not watch it much. The guy from that show is on the new NCIS New Orleans.

[BigK]

If I could have only one handgun, it'd be the CZ P-01.

[DWARREN123]

For plain every day use and simple maintenance and upkeep hard to beat a Glock.

The Sig P320 is nice but it is a complicated design, just take the slide apart.

Many with good/great triggers are quite a bit more complicated in design than the Glock.

As for carry I have been carrying a G21 lately and like it. I do have a G17 and G19 carry sometimes.

You really have to go with what fits you and you can use properly.

Edited September 11, 2014 by DWARREN123

[gun sane]

The Baby Desert Eagle is a winner......from those wonderful folks who brought you the Bible.

[Jonnin]

The Baby Desert Eagle is a winner......from those wonderful folks who brought you the Bible.

 

heh not really.  IMI is out of the picture and has been for a while.  The BDE was brought to you by the good old USA, via khar.  IMI only worked on the one design, the magnum caliber extra large frame design.  IMI does rock though -- the uzi alone was quite the creation, and they also did the tavor bullpup if I am not mistaken.

[Moped]

If I could only pick one, it would be a Glock 17.  However, it's not what a carry now.  For the last month I've been carrying a Taurus PT111 Milennium G2.  It's eaten everything I've put through it in it's 200 round break in period, with no problems, what so ever!  It's fast becoming my favorite small pistol!  I like it better than even the Colt Agent .38 Spl that I had!

[tnhawk]

Sig p230 not left hand friendly... Do love my 938 for carry!

Another vote for the 938!

[A.J. Holst]

[quote name="BigK" post="1188871" timestamp="1410456736"]

If I could have only one handgun, it'd be the CZ P-01.[/quot

I've got the SDP version, It's my go to gun.

For deeper concealment it's an MK9

[gun sane]

heh not really.  IMI is out of the picture and has been for a while.  The BDE was brought to you by the good old USA, via khar.  IMI only worked on the one design, the magnum caliber extra large frame design.  IMI does rock though -- the uzi alone was quite the creation, and they also did the tavor bullpup if I am not mistaken.

 

Lucky me, I have one stamped Made in Israel under the auspices of Israel Weapon Industries (IWI).  It's design is derived from Tanfoglio's clone of a CZ-75 and dubbed the Jericho 941.  The import name was changed to Baby Desert Eagle and is now brought to the USA by Magnum Research after Kahr bought them in 2011.  Here's some info on its background and workmanship:

 

http://www.zahal.org/groups/jericho-941-baby-eagle-z