Civil Unrest Thread got me thinking.

[Hershmeister]

[quote name="TMF" post="1188781" timestamp="1410441194"]I'll worry more about things like cancer. I realize that it is good to be prepared, but the chances of being the victim of an armed siege which I am single handedly defending, then surviving armed siege (regardless of defenses or what my house is made out of) are about the same as the same as having Jennifer Anniston show up at my front door to give me a BJ and make me a sammich. [/quote] I'll takw even just one of those things if JA shows up

[Glenn]

She makes a damn good bologna sandwich.

[satalac]

[quote name="Patrick Henry" post="1188699" timestamp="1410401843"]Make your home look like it has already been hit. Throw stuff all over the yard etc...... [/quote] Talk to people in Antioch, this doesn't work. (Used to live in Antioch)

[Randall53]

Well, I see a couple of people have thought about this. However, some of you really need to read up on your Testosterone supplements and attempt to cut back on your doses. Abnormal aggression to a fairly simple question on a forum is one side effect. I guess I should have posted this in the Survival and Preparedness section….Oh wait…I DID…!  LOL.  I will respond though by saying I didn’t tell, nor do I give a hoot how anyone spends their retirement accounts or college funds and civil unrest in no way compares to a freak’n army invasion nor the need for anti-artillery or missile bunkers, castles, nor shark infested moats…I might like to have an armor plated Winnebago though. I’m retiring in 2 weeks and that thing could be good on the freeway!  But those comments did crack me up so thanks!!

 

I WAS mostly thinking civil unrest as in drive by spraying of houses, and possibly attacks spreading into suburb type neighborhoods by gangs however. No doubt this could happen if things got really bad in the streets like in the other post I read. From the news, there’s no shortage of guns and ammo in the hood and drive by shootings do occur pretty frequently now in some areas of the hood, but could spread to other areas if, say for instance, the welfare checks quit coming? Or the Obama phones crap out? Anyway, Dolomite hit on a good idea though and thanks for the constructive comment. I have a small 9ft. room that faces the street that would allow covering the front door and has only one small window. It’s in the center of the house that would easily cover the front door and both sides of the house. Heck I could even give the Papa Johns Pizza guy cover while he delivered pizza to the window of my fortified room!! Maybe a steel plate backed by solid 2” rough lumber 4 or 5 ft tall on the side facing the street might do the trick. Guess I’ll just check into it and see what’s out there. Yall be safe and keep your powder dry.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Randall53

[McGarrett]

Make your home look like it has already been hit.  Throw stuff all over the yard etc...... 

I think some people up the road from me stole your idea.

[TMF]

[quote name="Randall53" post="1188935" timestamp="1410474418"]Well, I see a couple of people have thought about this. However, some of you really need to read up on your Testosterone supplements and attempt to cut back on your doses. Abnormal aggression to a fairly simple question on a forum is one side effect. I guess I should have posted this in the Survival and Preparedness section….Oh wait…I DID…! LOL. I will respond though by saying I didn’t tell, nor do I give a hoot how anyone spends their retirement accounts or college funds and civil unrest in no way compares to a freak’n army invasion nor the need for anti-artillery or missile bunkers, castles, nor shark infested moats…I might like to have an armor plated Winnebago though. I’m retiring in 2 weeks and that thing could be good on the freeway! But those comments did crack me up so thanks!! I WAS mostly thinking civil unrest as in drive by spraying of houses, and possibly attacks spreading into suburb type neighborhoods by gangs however. No doubt this could happen if things got really bad in the streets like in the other post I read. From the news, there’s no shortage of guns and ammo in the hood and drive by shootings do occur pretty frequently now in some areas of the hood, but could spread to other areas if, say for instance, the welfare checks quit coming? Or the Obama phones crap out? Anyway, Dolomite hit on a good idea though and thanks for the constructive comment. I have a small 9ft. room that faces the street that would allow covering the front door and has only one small window. It’s in the center of the house that would easily cover the front door and both sides of the house. Heck I could even give the Papa Johns Pizza guy cover while he delivered pizza to the window of my fortified room!! Maybe a steel plate backed by solid 2” rough lumber 4 or 5 ft tall on the side facing the street might do the trick. Guess I’ll just check into it and see what’s out there. Yall be safe and keep your powder dry.[/quote] Forgive me, the reason for my comment was that you said you found it "funny" that people would prepare for things by having food and water supplies, yet not have a house which can stop bullets. Considering the amount of time and money one would have to do to bullet proof their home, it would tie up all finances for most people. Some of us have health insurance which costs more than our mortgage. Considering that one in seven of us in this thread will get cancer at some point, I would not call it "funny" that most people haven't wasted their money on a bullet proof house. I would call it responsible. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Randall53]

Forgive me, the reason for my comment was that you said you found it "funny" that people would prepare for things by having food and water supplies, yet not have a house which can stop bullets. Considering the amount of time and money one would have to do to bullet proof their home, it would tie up all finances for most people. Some of us have health insurance which costs more than our mortgage. Considering that one in seven of us in this thread will get cancer at some point, I would not call it "funny" that most people haven't wasted their money on a bullet proof house. I would call it responsible. Sent from my iPhone using TapataIk

"I find it funny" is another way of saying "I find it strange....", or it has throughout my life. I was also referring to a room in which to fight from, not an entire house and thought there may be some here that have made one and I could get ideas. My insurance is half again more than my mortgage, so I do know what you mean. It doesn't matter. There are other sites that have survival info.

[Glenn]

Randall53,

Don't take it too hard, I have often thought of the same problem. When the wife and I started building I actually looked into using insulated forms, where you end up with a solid concrete house which is then finished normally on both sides. Unfortunately the cost was well beyond our budget and the wife wouldn't go for the 18-20 inch thick walls, even if we could have afforded it. We will have a retreat room which is poured concrete block with a solid concrete ceiling. Not impenetrable but definitely will give me time to shoot back. Just do the best you can. 

[TMF]

"I find it funny" is another way of saying "I find it strange....", or it has throughout my life. I was also referring to a room in which to fight from, not an entire house and thought there may be some here that have made one and I could get ideas. My insurance is half again more than my mortgage, so I do know what you mean. It doesn't matter. There are other sites that have survival info.

 

Fair enough.  I was pointing out that it isn't strange at all that someone would prepare for the unknown by having a stock of food, water and weapons yet not have a bulletproof fortress.  Most folks don't have the ability to waste money on that.  Folks have to balance preparedness with the actual reality of problems they have a greater likelihood of encountering.  I used health insurance as an example because it is terribly expensive, yet it is more of a necessity. 

 

For those of us with a family to support, you should understand that it isn't silly that we don't drop thousands upon thousands of dollars constructing a bulletproof structure within a home for the unlikely apocalypse.  Even if I was single and had mounds of cash to blow, I'd still consider the fact that if there was a complete societal breakdown and murderous gangs roamed my streets unimpeded, they would save the ammo and just burn my house down with me in it.

 

Try to keep in mind that civil unrest does not equate to mass murder and lawlessness in the streets.  For every sociopathic, violent male who would exploit such a scenario, there are dozens of good people who will just be trying to survive.  Those are the folks who flee those areas and live in like minded communities.  While folks may flee heavily populated urban areas of low income and commercialism, which historically are the epicenters of these incidents, people will defend the places which they call home when there are no other places to flee to.  If things were to get so bad that the suburbs and country folks are no longer safe from large gangs of pillagers, we have bigger problems that won't be solved by a defensible structure.

[tnguy]

I have a brick house so you'd have to be going some to get bullets through that. The windows are another matter, however. I don't really see a good solution to that. Some kind of shutter might work but there's some lead-time involved in setting that up. Likely a retreat to the basement would be in order but that comes with its own issues.

 

 

they would save the ammo and just burn my house down with me in it.

 

This is the crux of the matter. If things get that bad, you'll probably be lucky to get away with what you can carry. That's something you should be mentally (and logistically) prepared to do.

Edited September 12, 2014 by tnguy

[Omega]

I have a brick house so you'd have to be going some to get bullets through that. The windows are another matter, however. I don't really see a good solution to that. Some kind of shutter might work but there's some lead-time involved in setting that up. Likely a retreat to the basement would be in order but that comes with its own issues.

I would not rely on brick for protection, most rifle rounds will get through.  For those interested in trying to fortify their homes on the cheap, spray-on truck liner, like line-x or rhino liner, has been shown to help in blast protection and may also help a bit for bullet protection.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSvVy6oiMZI

[Dolomite_supafly]

For a really, really cheap option to stop bullets use ceramic floor tile.

 

I took two .25" thick ceramic floor tiles that were 12"x12". I glued a 1/4" piece of rubber between them to give it some stand off and then I shot them. I placed the plates inside a cardboard box and then put a t-shirt over the box. I shot it with 223 and a few small fragments were on the inside of the t-shirt. I shot another set of plates with 9mm and the bullet never exited the box and with 45 ACP the bullet made it out of the t-shirt but did not harm the plastic barrel behind it. I am not sure how 7.62x39 would have fared but I suspect it would have made it through.

 

It would not provide the multiple hit capability that AR500 steel does but for the cost to armor a wall in AR500 you could easily install multiple layers of ceramic.
 

[tnguy]

I would not rely on brick for protection, most rifle rounds will get through.

 

Meh, a quick Google image search for "brick wall bullet holes" and I wouldn't say "I'll take my chances" but I'd stack it up against aluminum siding and drywall any day of the week.

[tnguy]

For a really, really cheap option to stop bullets use ceramic floor tile.

 

I took two .25" thick ceramic floor tiles that were 12"x12". I glued a 1/4" piece of rubber between them to give it some stand off and then I shot them. I placed the plates inside a cardboard box and then put a t-shirt over the box. I shot it with 223 and a few small fragments were on the inside of the t-shirt. I shot another set of plates with 9mm and the bullet never exited the box and with 45 ACP the bullet made it out of the t-shirt but did not harm the plastic barrel behind it. I am not sure how 7.62x39 would have fared but I suspect it would have made it through.

 

It would not provide the multiple hit capability that AR500 steel does but for the cost to armor a wall in AR500 you could easily install multiple layers of ceramic.
 

 

My concern would be if the tiles are glazed, that could be some fast moving sharp edges to be dealing with.

[Murgatroy]

I forget where I read it, but the ceramic tiles, then coated with bedliner seemed to be a pretty cheap way to make plates. 

 

I would like to see someone make a wall of the same caliber as an outer home wall, with siding, hardy board, insulation, and then drywall, then try the ceramic tiles. I have a feeling they would be fairly solid in the grand scheme of things.

 

A lot of the 'tests' I see performed don't go through the effort of shooting through plywood, insulation, drywall, sheetrock, family portraits, a clock, curtains, etc... they shoot through a piece of sheet rock then proceed to tell you that a pellet from 12ga buckshot will penetrate through ten rooms and three neighbor's homes.

 

Granted, the odds of someone doing a random drive by is pretty rare, and a naive thought. Most drive bys are gang related, or drug related, so unless you are in a gang, or selling drugs, or live in a neighborhood where that is a common problem, you have nothing to worry about. I am more worried about finding a parking place than I am about being a victim of random gang violence. 

[JPS]

When I was a kid I was fascinated with a story about a boy who's father built him a secret room in their house, and I promised myself I would do that for my kids when I grew up. 

 

When our house was being built I added a small space/room to our floor plan for a very minimal amount of money.  Now that room is our go-to shelter if our house is stormed.  Odds of finding it are slim, and we could probably remain out of sight and hidden even if almost the entire house was ransacked. The room's location would also allow for some serious 'shooting back' through strategically hidden view/gun ports if needed.

 

Goes to show that you can make some plans for this kind of thing without necessarily spending a huge amount of money.  (I may look at lining the walls with some ceramic tile 'plates' now though..!)

[tnguy]

I've given some thought to adding one of these:

 

 

The basement door has its issues and the crawl space could actually be more secure.

[No_0ne]

EM50 urban assault vehicle

 

I still enjoy seeing that movie ...

[Ted S.]

How much other cr@p do you sit around worrying about? Meteors? UFOs? Dragons?

 

Be prepared for life in general, and then get out there and live it.

 

Only dragons.

[Ted S.]

Reading all the comments on this thread...everyone realizes it's in the "Survival and Preparedness" sub-forum, right?

[TMF]

[quote name="Ted S." post="1189469" timestamp="1410638108"]Reading all the comments on this thread...everyone realizes it's in the "Survival and Preparedness" sub-forum, right?[/quote] Yes, and I take steps to prepare for the unknown such as food, water and a means of defense, so I did take issue with the notion that doing so and not having a bullet proof bunker was somehow wrong or silly. It would be like me saying, "oh, you have a bulletproof bunker, but you didn't dig deep enough to protect from JDAMs? Well you're just not prepared." Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[btq96r]

Situational awareness is still the best survival tool anybody can have.  If you think you need to fortify your home with ballistic level protection, moving to a more civilized location would more than likely be cheaper than making the needed fortifications to the entire house.  I suppose you could pile sandbags, if you had the time, energy and didn't mind living in a Vietnam movie. 

 

Knowing how your neighbors would respond in a crisis, and knowing how where the likely hot spots are (i.e.: places likely to be looted, areas where violence will spring up from, ect) are your best bets to let you gauge how much time you have to decide to either bug out, or man battle stations inside your home.

[jtmaze]

I live far enough out that if it comes to that point me and mine will be long gone. My best friend lives about 3 miles away at the end of a gravel rd that is easily blocked off with 6 buildings on his property for temp housing ect. My house is indefensible for long term but the wife and I have an escape plan with off-road vehicle that can be loaded in minutes and go out the back on field roads, trails, ect. Backup location is easily defended. Block the road and anyone coming has to cross 1000 yards of open terrain. JTM Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gregintenn]

Reading all the comments on this thread...everyone realizes it's in the "Survival and Preparedness" sub-forum, right?

Yes, it is the "Survival and Preparedness" forum. So far, I've managed to survive and am fairly prepared for most likely scenarios which would cause problems. I've found that the location of one's home is of more importance than it being built like a military fort.

 

I've yet to suffer a "drive by shooting", but have dealt with floods, tornadoes, and ice storms. Sickness or job loss are two of a myriad of likely possibilities one will have to face.

 

Total societal breakdown makes for entertaining conversation on an internet forum, but honestly, it isn't likely to be the thing you'll need to be prepared for.