Apple Anouncements

[TMF]

[quote name="Raoul" post="1188210" timestamp="1410303753"]I'm pretty sure that whatever Apple does or doesn't do there will be little if any effect on my life. No offense. IMHO America will ultimately fall because our internet connection goes down.[/quote] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[E4 No More]

Actually read the specs on the phones this morning and they are abysmal. The phones offer connection speeds of up to 150mb/s but no service provider even comes remotely close to that. Complete waste.

They did something like that instead of upgrading the camera which is still an 8mp, which is the same resolution that has been on the two previous phones since 2012... But it's "awesome" because it focuses faster. This phone is like the Windows millennium release for Microsoft lol

It's my understanding that the iPhone 6 will support 802.11AC (Gigabit+) wireless AP and VoLTE allowing it to transition to the carrier's network seemlessly. T-Mobile already supports VoLTE at launch and the other carriers will follow. I admit that I haven't read the specifications for the phone as far as throughput is concerned, nor did I follow the launch like some Apple fans do. But, other phones will do the same, so nothing I've seen on this impresses me. I owned an iPhone and couldn't carry on a conversation with it, (size of phone versus size of head), so none of this would impress me anyway. I moved from the iPhone to a Note 2 and never looked back.

[Sam1]

The payments thing is a big deal in a way that no other manufacturer has been able to pull off, yet. It will probably be the real "game changer" of this release.

You may or may not see a personal need for it, but it moves credit card security into a true two-factor realm. Something you have( the phone with the card) and something you are (fingerprint). The fact that they're tokenized at the phone and the retailer will never see the number is a big deal in light of all of the recent card breaches.

No system is perfect, but this does move the ball forward.

Apple payment isn't a big deal, it's just an NFC chip that has already been out for years, and in European countries for nearly a decade. I remember using a cellphone to pay for a soda back in 2002 in Germany.

Regulations are why NFC hasn't taken off in the US, not because of technical constraints

[MacGyver]

Apple payment isn't a big deal, it's just an NFC chip that has already been out for years, and in European countries for nearly a decade. I remember using a cellphone to pay for a soda back in 2002 in Germany.

Regulations are why NFC hasn't taken off in the US, not because of technical constraint

NFC has been out for years, but Apple has the ability to move payments forward in ways that others have not. And, it's really just because they're Apple and retailers want to get on that bus.  Tokenization at the local level and true two factor payments are a big deal.  Apple avoided NFC forever, and I suspect it was because they couldn't control the whole ecosystem.  With the touch sensor, they can.

 

We'll see if it takes off, but I think it's a step in the right direction.

[Dustbuster]

Apple released a new awesome payment system - called NFC - has been out for years on a bunch of other manufacturer's phones Nokia was on this years ago, w Norwegians paying for cokes at vending machine w older models. I made a slow switch to apple gear as needed, primarily due to blackberry getting dumber, and apple getting lighter and smarter. I'm on w Sam as well but my Casio keeps time, and I can screen calls by looking at the phones screen. I'm not a fan of canoe paddle phones so I probably won't like the 6 plus. I see the watch as a fad,the 6 well have to live with....

[monkeylizard]

NFC hasn't taken off here because banks charge higher rates for those transactions, the standards aren't completely set (Google vs. Isis vs. merchant-backs standards), and , until now, Apple has stayed away from it. Retailers have been hesitant to employ devices to take payments from phones when the most popular phone in the country doesn't support it and Android is inconsistent across hardware whether or not they support it.

 

I'm an iPhone user. My bank doesn't issue the magic NFC credit cards, as far as I know. I've never asked, and they've never pushed one. Until now, I've never had the option of using NFC payment. iPhone6 changes that. Apple will create the critical-mass of people needed for retailers to implement mobile readers. Best Buy had them and actually has started taking them out because of the low adoption rate. I suspect they'll be putting them back in.

 

Sometimes it's not about what a product can do, it's about how it does it. Apple understands that. IBM didn't and it seems Android makers don't either. For every 1 person that will buy a product because it has a 3% performance boost over the last generation of gigawhatsit zippidy-doo-da chipset *eyesglazingover*.....there are 100 more that will buy it because it looks nice and is easy to use. Look at Samsung commercials. They tout the products specs, blazing speeds, huge screens, etc. Look at Apple's commercials. They show people using the products in every day life. Non-Apple people will see their Apple friends using Apple Pay and decide they want to do it too, only to find that the Android-based phone in their pocket already supports it and has for years. They just didn't know it.

 

My wife asks me how to do something on her Android phone. My parents ask me how to do something on their windows laptop. Neither of them ever ask me how to do something in iPhone or iPad. Go figure.

[maroonandwhite]

I'm gonna start saving my pennies and hopefully get one of the watches a few months after they come out. If there are no bugs or serious problems that is. The big plus for me is the heart rate sensor. I was planning to get a running watch with this technology (no chest strap needed) but with it being built in the watch it will make it worth it. Otherwise it would just be convenience. I can see them taking off though. My guess is that they won't do so until a few redesigns. The watch looks fine for me but I doubt many ladies will wear them right off the bat. I do like that they are recognizing how personal of a thing selecting a watch is and are giving us a few options.

[TMF]

[quote name="maroonandwhite" post="1188501" timestamp="1410364188"]I'm gonna start saving my pennies and hopefully get one of the watches a few months after they come out. If there are no bugs or serious problems that is. The big plus for me is the heart rate sensor. I was planning to get a running watch with this technology (no chest strap needed) but with it being built in the watch it will make it worth it. Otherwise it would just be convenience. I can see them taking off though. My guess is that they won't do so until a few redesigns. The watch looks fine for me but I doubt many ladies will wear them right off the bat. I do like that they are recognizing how personal of a thing selecting a watch is and are giving us a few options.[/quote] Just so you're aware, there are blue tooth products which pair with your iPhone and work in exercise apps like Runmeter. Just throwing that out there in case that is the primary reason why you're looking to get the watch. I use Runmeter on my iPhone 5 to keep track of my runs and pace progress (or regression) but don't use the heart rate monitor. Just seems convenient to use it since I just play Pandora while I run so I already have my iPhone with me. I believe they have a selection of heart rate monitors. Some can go in your ear I believe. I might have seen a finger tip one too. Been a while since I looked. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[babelt]

Apple makes stuff easier for people that aren't all that smart and you now how many of those people are out there (not saying that all Mac owners are idiots, I have seen plenty of Android users that are).

[maroonandwhite]

Just so you're aware, there are blue tooth products which pair with your iPhone and work in exercise apps like Runmeter. Just throwing that out there in case that is the primary reason why you're looking to get the watch. I use Runmeter on my iPhone 5 to keep track of my runs and pace progress (or regression) but don't use the heart rate monitor. Just seems convenient to use it since I just play Pandora while I run so I already have my iPhone with me. I believe they have a selection of heart rate monitors. Some can go in your ear I believe. I might have seen a finger tip one too. Been a while since I looked. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah I've looked around but never really saw one in particular that caught my eye except one or two which are in the $200 range. I want the GPS/Route mapping capability as well as the heart rate monitor. I do also like some of the functionality the Apple Watch will provide. I use the map software quite a lot since I just moved here and it will be great to use siri for that right on my wrist.

[Sam1]

NFC has been out for years, but Apple has the ability to move payments forward in ways that others have not. And, it's really just because they're Apple and retailers want to get on that bus. Tokenization at the local level and true two factor payments are a big deal. Apple avoided NFC forever, and I suspect it was because they couldn't control the whole ecosystem. With the touch sensor, they can.

We'll see if it takes off, but I think it's a step in the right direction.

The reason Apple can't control it is because of the PCIDSS standards, which I may add, has had the "tokenization" standards notice out since 2010 or 2011. Apple is honestly not doing anything that the PCI framework hasn't been in place to handle for years.

They can spin it however they want, but it's nothing more than them changing the name to a more consumer friendly catchphrase.

[MacGyver]

The reason Apple can't control it is because of the PCIDSS standards, which I may add, has had the "tokenization" standards notice out since 2010 or 2011. Apple is honestly not doing anything that the PCI framework hasn't been in place to handle for years.

They can spin it however they want, but it's nothing more than them changing the name to a more consumer friendly catchphrase.

Take a step a little further back.

 

There's not a retailer out there right now that isn't struggling with three conversations:  end-to-end encryption, tokenization and hosted payment pages.  If they're not having these conversations in light of the last year's breaches, then they should probably pick up their last check this afternoon and go find something else to do.  I know this, because I facilitate these conversations with dozens of retailers big and small every week.

 

Everyone knows that the above three items are the right thing to do, but they're struggling with it - for a host of legitimate reasons.  Some of them would buckle under the capital expense of upgrading their POS systems and card terminals.  Some retailers back office systems aren't designed to handle data in that way.  There are still a whole bunch of payment processors who don't support end-to-end encryption or tokenization.  Even with the PCIDSS 3.0 spec (which Target kind of bricked) and next year's liability shift with EMV, a lot of "PCI compliant" merchants are still 18-36 months out from even beginning to secure their environments.  This implementation takes security out of the merchants' hands and lets the individual user have control of their own stuff.

 

This implementation is significantly different than historic NFC payments for two reasons.  One, it isn't just a novel way of getting your PAN data to a merchant like it has been historically - it's never giving that data to a merchant, period.  This system is a true two-factor authenticated system that enforces true end-to-end encryption.  The merchant never has access to the data.  If they need repeat access, then they receive a tokenized representation that they may reference in the future.  They never see your data, and that's huge since they can't seem to get their junk together to protect it. 

 

I'm looking forward to studying the new chip and spec from an InfoSec perspective, but this is a big step forward.  Apple does have its issues (see JLaw et al last week), and individual customers should spend some time thinking about whether or not they want to give a corporation that much visibility into their spending habits.  That said, it's more than just an Apple rebranding of old tech.

[Sam1]

Retailers aren't really struggling with that stuff, all of it is outlined in the PCIDSS standards. They either follow those requirements or they can't use a payment card system.

[MacGyver]

Retailers aren't really struggling with that stuff, all of it is outlined in the PCIDSS standards. They either follow those requirements or they can't use a payment card system.

If that were true, two of the largest retailers in the country wouldn't have just reported losing 100 million cards each in attacks over the last year.

 

Target was "compliant" when their breach happened.  So was Home Depot. 

 

But, there's a difference between "compliant" and "secure."  Target is a wonderful example of this.  They were compliant, and had audited reports from a QSA vouching for it.  But, at the same time, they were using credit card data to track their customers' purchases so they can better target them with advertising.  They gambled on storing PAN data and lost.  That breach will cost them more than a billion dollars before it's all said and done.  But, do you think it's changing their consumer tracking behavior? 

 

So, why do we trust retailers with this data?  We're on a gun forum where most of us take some responsibility for our own personal security.  Apple's system is allowing the customer to take some responsibility for their own financial security.  I can't see how that's a bad thing

[MacGyver]

I want to like the new design, but both will stick out of the rear pocket of a pair of 501s. 

 

I laughed at a hipster the other day as he was contorting himself and trying with both hands to get his big ol' Galaxy S5 into the pocket of his skinny jeans.  Maybe he was a prophet...

[viscero]

ok so let me sum up this cultural altering announcement:

 

Apple released a bigger screen - All the other phone manufacturers did that 7 years ago.

 

Apple released a smartwatch - Other manufacturers have had these on the market for 2+ years now

 

Apple released a new awesome payment system - called NFC - has been out for years on a bunch of other manufacturer's phones

 

I love Mac's but forgive me if I don't seem too impressed with Apple "inventing" these awesome new technologies that have all been around for years and years already.

Yep, my take on it as well.  Thus is usually the case between Apple and Android platforms.  This is the weakness of keeping everything under one roof like Apple does; innovation moves at a snails pace compared to the multifaceted competition from the other side of the street.

[Sam1]

If that were true, two of the largest retailers in the country wouldn't have just reported losing 100 million cards each in attacks over the last year.

 

Target was "compliant" when their breach happened.  So was Home Depot. 

 

But, there's a difference between "compliant" and "secure."  Target is a wonderful example of this.  They were compliant, and had audited reports from a QSA vouching for it.  But, at the same time, they were using credit card data to track their customers' purchases so they can better target them with advertising.  They gambled on storing PAN data and lost.  That breach will cost them more than a billion dollars before it's all said and done.  But, do you think it's changing their consumer tracking behavior? 

 

So, why do we trust retailers with this data?  We're on a gun forum where most of us take some responsibility for our own personal security.  Apple's system is allowing the customer to take some responsibility for their own financial security.  I can't see how that's a bad thing

 

Security breeches have nothing to do with PCI standards.  The PCIDSS audits are how most of these breeches are discovered - it's 101 level info security stuff.  The PCI SSC is made up of people from those huge companies and top execs from the payment card companies; they're the ones who set the standards across the board.  If a company (Walmart, target, pf chang's etc) doesn't want to comply with their requirements, they will not be allowed to accept payment from ANY major credit card company (Visa, MC, AMEX, Discover).

 

This group has mandated the implementation of EMV's on credit cards by October 2015 - same transaction principles that the NFC chips provide; "tokenization".  These have also been out on credit cards for years and years.  So again, Apple did not create anything new, nor are they controlling the market in any way.  Apple has almost no influence (by itself) on how the PCI regulates itself and never will.  The only thing Apple is really good at, is getting people to believe they are on the cutting edge of something, while actually using history books to develop their new products.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Sam1