Aquarium owners...

[mikegideon]

We're in the process of getting a 55 gal tank set-up.  A friend of mine who was formerly a breeder of koy and cichlids (among other things) is moving and let us have one of his tanks for a song.  Also getting and handful of fairly large fish, hopefully this week.  The tank itself has been up and running for a week or so, just waiting for a convenient time to introduce the fish.  I haven't had an aquarium since I was little but my kids really seem to like it.  Based on what I'm told, tanks are a lot lower maintenance than they used to be. 

 

Yeah, 'cause modern fish don't poop as much. :). There are better tools. You don't have to use a bucket for water changes anymore. Filters are probably a little better.

[Mike A]

Yeah, 'cause modern fish don't poop as much. :). There are better tools. You don't have to use a bucket for water changes anymore. Filters are probably a little better.

IMHO the water quality is not as good as it was 30+ years ago.  The technology makes the maintenance easier but bottom line, you still need to do it if you expect to be successful.  

[peejman]

Yeah, 'cause modern fish don't poop as much. :). There are better tools. You don't have to use a bucket for water changes anymore. Filters are probably a little better.

 

 

I think it's just better understanding of the bio-cycle in the tank by both the owners makes of filters, pump, and such.  And maybe Mom was a little too anal about cleaning it.  ;)

 

I told my friend about my memories of spending an entire day taking all the fish out, draining the tank, scrubbing the tank and all it contents (fish excluded) with a toothbrush, and then putting it all back together.... he looked at me like I had two heads.  I took that as a good sign, unlike when my wife looks at me like that. 

[RC3]

I want one. But with sharks and sting rays. Piranhas just dont cut it these days. Or a bio dome aquarium and turn it into a beta fight club. 

[mikegideon]

I want one. But with sharks and sting rays. Piranhas just dont cut it these days. Or a bio dome aquarium and turn it into a beta fight club. 

 

Get your wallet out. Sharks require LOTS of volume. Stingrays ARE sharks.

[BigK]

Before he passed away, an old friend of my had a 55 gal tank in his living room.

Kept it stocked with Piranha. I went with him to get food for them several times. He fed them minnows.

 

Last aquarium I had included Piranha. They were so fun. I'd get a dozen guppies every few weeks to feed them. They'd only kill one at at time. They'd eat the tail fin first, then the pectoral fins to limit their prey's movement. Kind of cool, then they'd eat the rest. What sank and they couldn't eat would get cleaned up by the fresh water lobsters I had in there.

[mikegideon]

Last aquarium I had included Piranha. They were so fun. I'd get a dozen guppies every few weeks to feed them. They'd only kill one at at time. They'd eat the tail fin first, then the pectoral fins to limit their prey's movement. Kind of cool, then they'd eat the rest. What sank and they couldn't eat would get cleaned up by the fresh water lobsters I had in there.

 

I don't like them because they tend to chew on each other. Meat is meat to a piranha.

[RC3]

Get your wallet out. Sharks require LOTS of volume. Stingrays ARE sharks.

They have tiny sharks and sting rays. And hell, an indoor pool could make the most bad ass aquarium. Or a great way to get people to work with it. 

[hipower]

Last aquarium I had included Piranha. They were so fun. I'd get a dozen guppies every few weeks to feed them. They'd only kill one at at time. They'd eat the tail fin first, then the pectoral fins to limit their prey's movement. Kind of cool, then they'd eat the rest. What sank and they couldn't eat would get cleaned up by the fresh water lobsters I had in there.

 

Yes, that's pretty much what I remember from watching them. It always amazed me the way the food fish reacted when they were released into the tank. It was like they knew a predator was there. They would bunch up in a tight formation, usually near a corner and not move about much.

 

Then one of the Piranha would swim around scoping them out. Then darting in and suddenly there would be half a minnow slowly sinking to the bottom of the tank. 

[10-Ring]

 

A trick I have always used to establish the bacteria in a new tank... grab a big handful of gravel from an established tank. That will seed the new tank. There won't be enough to handle a big fish load, but they will multiply rapidly if you give them an ammonia source like a couple of fish. You just gotta watch your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels.

 

Thanks for that tip.  I have a 10 gallon now that I've had for about a year and a half containing 3 fancy goldfish.  They have really outgrown the tank and I'm thinking about just moving them to the bigger tank.  That said.  I've always had a problem with algae in that tank.  I've scrubbed and used aglicide but it always comes back with a vengeance.   Would it be a bad idea to introduce gravel from the old tank to the new tank with that algae in it?  I would like to do everything I can to keep it out of the new tank.  I can't imagine how hard that thing would be to clean.

[Mike A]

Thanks for that tip.  I have a 10 gallon now that I've had for about a year and a half containing 3 fancy goldfish.  They have really outgrown the tank and I'm thinking about just moving them to the bigger tank.  That said.  I've always had a problem with algae in that tank.  I've scrubbed and used aglicide but it always comes back with a vengeance.   Would it be a bad idea to introduce gravel from the old tank to the new tank with that algae in it?  I would like to do everything I can to keep it out of the new tank.  I can't imagine how hard that thing would be to clean.

Biggest tips I can offer on algae prevention are:  1)  Frequent partial water changes.  The end product of the nitrogen cycle is nitrate.  Most plant food is nitrogen based.  Less nitrate = less plant food.  2)  Limit your lighting if you can.  If you're not trying to grow live plants and there's nothing else in the tank that uses photosynthesis, turn the light off when you're not watching the fish.  I typically only run my light for about an hour in the morning around feeding time and maybe 2-3 hours in the evening when I'm hanging out in the living room doing the evening feeding and watching the fish.  

 

Those two tips will take care of a lot of the problem.  If the algae bothers you, I'd still recommend old fashioned mechanical removal.  Too easy to create a chemical soup to no real good purpose.  

 

Finally, as you've no doubt figured out, you're way overstocked.  IMHO, 3 fancy goldfish really need at least a 75 gallon aquarium.  The greater water volume will also keep your nitrate levels lower all other things being equal and help with the algae situation.  

[mikegideon]

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Edited September 8, 2014 by mikegideon

[mikegideon]

Thanks for that tip.  I have a 10 gallon now that I've had for about a year and a half containing 3 fancy goldfish.  They have really outgrown the tank and I'm thinking about just moving them to the bigger tank.  That said.  I've always had a problem with algae in that tank.  I've scrubbed and used aglicide but it always comes back with a vengeance.   Would it be a bad idea to introduce gravel from the old tank to the new tank with that algae in it?  I would like to do everything I can to keep it out of the new tank.  I can't imagine how hard that thing would be to clean.

 

The algae is growing because you have plenty of nitrate in the water. That's a good thing. It will eat the nitrate and put out oxygen. ALL established tanks will grow algae. NOTHING wrong with that. I keep my algae down with a couple of plecostomus catfish. You usually only need one. They will keep it off the glass as long as you don't feed them. My two are a foot or so long now, so I do feed them some. I feed them algae wafers. If they stop keeping the tank clean, I stop feeding them. Just a common pleco. They will be small when you get them from the fish store, but will get pretty big over the years.

 

 

So, when you get a new tank, move all the gravel to it, and add some more to make up the difference in size. Sprinkle the old gravel on top of the new stuff. Don't let it dry out. Leave enough water in the old tank to keep it covered until you are ready to transfer it. You should be able to just move the fish to the new tank. You probably won't even see an ammonia spike. I have done it a number of times.

[mikegideon]

Biggest tips I can offer on algae prevention are:  1)  Frequent partial water changes.  The end product of the nitrogen cycle is nitrate.  Most plant food is nitrogen based.  Less nitrate = less plant food.  2)  Limit your lighting if you can.  If you're not trying to grow live plants and there's nothing else in the tank that uses photosynthesis, turn the light off when you're not watching the fish.  I typically only run my light for about an hour in the morning around feeding time and maybe 2-3 hours in the evening when I'm hanging out in the living room doing the evening feeding and watching the fish.  

 

Those two tips will take care of a lot of the problem.  If the algae bothers you, I'd still recommend old fashioned mechanical removal.  Too easy to create a chemical soup to no real good purpose.  

 

Finally, as you've no doubt figured out, you're way overstocked.  IMHO, 3 fancy goldfish really need at least a 75 gallon aquarium.  The greater water volume will also keep your nitrate levels lower all other things being equal and help with the algae situation.  

 

All good advice. Water changes reduce the nitrate level. You won't be able to measure any nitrate in tap water. An aquarium is like a gun safe. Hard to get one that's too big.

[Hozzie]

I have been considering getting an aquarium for a long time and this may push me a bit more in that direction.  I had a terrarium at  one point, but think I would like to go for just fish.  Debating salt or fresh water.  i know salt is much more expensive in general and a bit harder to take care of, but if I buy the proper equipment up front, just how much harder is it?  

 

I have room for a pretty big tank, but will probably try to stick with something around 100-125 gallons.  Is buying the tank itself from somewhere like Craigslist ok or is going new better.  

Edited September 9, 2014 by Hozzie

[dralarms]

Salt water is easier and more stable, once it's established.

[peejman]

For everyone considering installing an aquarium....    Keep in mind how much they weigh.  An empty 50 gallon aquarium weighs about 50 lbs, then you add 50 lbs of gravel, another 50lbs of rocks and such, then 400lbs of water, plus a 50lb stand... That's 600lbs, similar weight to a moderately sized gun safe.  A 100 gal aquarium can weigh more than  1000 lbs.  

 

If you're sitting the aquarium on a concrete slab, no big deal.  If it'll sit on a typical wood framed floor over a crawlspace or room beneath, that's a lot of weight and it's well above the typical load rating for residential floor construction.  Typical floors are designed for 40 lbs/sqft.  My 50 gal tank is about 5ft long x 1 ft wide = 5 sqft.  At 600lbs, that 120 lbs/sqft...  3x the design load for the floor.  Location of the tank relative to load bearing walls and which way the floor joists run play a large part in how well the floor will support the weight. 

 

If you install your tank and notice that nearby doors or windows seem bind up or not close properly when they didn't before, you probably need to add some support. 

 

My tank sits about 2 ft from an exterior load bearing wall on a wood framed floor over my crawlspace.  It also sits such that its perpendicular to the floor joists (meaning the weight is supported by about 4 joists), so it's probably fine as is.  But just because I'm that guy, I laminated two 2x10's and installed them perpendicular to the existing joists which bridges the load across 6 joists instead of 4, and I added two 4x4's under the laminated 2x10's running directly to the ground.  Overkill for sure, but it ain't gonna budge. 

 

Here's a relatively long but thorough article about the topic... http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/aquarium_weight.php

 

edited to correct a couple numbers... I used 7lbs/gal which is gasoline instead of 8 lbs/gal for water.  Oops. 

Edited September 9, 2014 by peejman

[Garufa]

An excellent point peejman.  As a gallon of water weighs about 8.34 lbs it's good to take that into consideration.

[mikegideon]

An excellent point peejman.  As a gallon of water weighs about 8.34 lbs it's good to take that into consideration.

 

40 lbs per square foot sounds kind of low. Lots of 200 lb guys walking around these parts. I'm thinking that number is for an entire floor. I did some research when I was looking for a big tank (350 gal). That one may have needed some reinforcement. I have always just put them on an outside wall.

[dralarms]

I think it's closer to 200 per square foot

[mikegideon]

I think it's closer to 200 per square foot

 

That rings a bell

[peejman]

40 lbs per square foot sounds kind of low. Lots of 200 lb guys walking around these parts. I'm thinking that number is for an entire floor. I did some research when I was looking for a big tank (350 gal). That one may have needed some reinforcement. I have always just put them on an outside wall.

 

 

I think it's closer to 200 per square foot

 

 

The load rating is 40lb/sqft, but that is for the entire floor.  The actual strength is much higher.  I think the safety factors is typically 3-4.  The 300 lb guy walking is shear strength of the floor, which is much higher than the load rating.  And as I stated above and explained at length in the article I linked, it depends a lot on how the floor/house is designed and where you sit the aquarium.  Wood does stretch over time.  If you sit something heavy in one spot and leave it there a long time, the wood will stretch and sag over time which can cause lots of other problems.  This is an instance where a little forethought, knowledge, and preparation (if necessary) can prevent a big problem later. 

 

The floors in my house are wavy as hell and I can feel it move in a few places, so I'm not super confident in the quality of construction.  I'm also the nerdy engineer type and what I've seen in the limited work I've done on the house decreases my confidence even more.  So I installed some extra support, just in case.  $50 in materials and a half day's work is worth it to help me sleep better. 

Edited September 9, 2014 by peejman

[mikegideon]

The load rating is 40lb/sqft, but that is for the entire floor.  The actual strength is much higher.  I think the safety factors is typically 3-4.  The 300 lb guy walking is shear strength of the floor, which is much higher than the load rating.  And as I stated above and explained at length in the article I linked, it depends a lot on how the floor/house is designed and where you sit the aquarium.  Wood does stretch over time.  If you sit something heavy in one spot and leave it there a long time, the wood will stretch and sag over time which can cause lots of other problems.  This is an instance where a little forethought, knowledge, and preparation (if necessary) can prevent a big problem later. 

 

The floors in my house are wavy as hell and I can feel it move in a few places, so I'm not super confident in the quality of construction.  I'm also the nerdy engineer type and what I've seen in the limited work I've done on the house decreases my confidence even more.  So I installed some extra support, just in case.  $50 in materials and a half day's work is worth it to help me sleep better. 

 

Yep. I wouldn't worry so much about a 50.  I have a safe on the other side of the wall from my fridge. They are on an inside wall, and probably total over 1500 lbs. No sag that I can see. 

[dralarms]

I've got a 1250 lb safe on one wall and a 120 gallon fish tank on the same wall, just in a different room, so they are back to back. Been that way 10 years or so, no sag. Just had the hardwood replaced under the tank and the subfloor was fine, and still butted up against the wall.

[mikegideon]

The real damage is to the structure under the subfloor. As peej said, it's worth checking.  It's just more complicated than the minimum load bearing spec for a floor. My kitchen floor got springier when I put in ceramic tile. But, that's a lot of weight over the entire span.