9-year-old girl accidentally kills instructor with Uzi

[Someotherguy]

good ole cnn with a AR15 on the monitor... :rofl:

 

no matter what...it's always gonna be a AR15...idiots

[Garufa]

I guess ol' evil blacky is taking one for the team...

 

As to the "headline" I wonder who will be sued.  The guy responsible already paid with his life so can't blame him.  Certainly the business will be sued by the parents.

 

Who's gonna charge the parents for incredible foolishness and irresponsibility in allowing a 9 year old to shoot a fully automatic weapon?

Edited August 27, 2014 by Garufa

[GlockSpock]

[quote name="Garufa" post="1183900" timestamp="1409180934"]As to the "headline" I wonder who will be sued. The guy responsible already paid with his life so can't blame him. Certainly the business will be sued by the parents. Who's gonna charge the parents for incredible foolishness and irresponsibility in allowing a 9 year old to shoot a fully automatic weapon?[/quote] Well if someone on these forums let their kid shoot and accidentally kill an instructor with a gun they couldn't handle, I could see blaming them. But what if the parents know absolutely nothing about firearm safety ultimately and was unaware if the possible dangers with the Uzi? I mean after all movies portray automatic fire as something that never ends, never hits innocent bystanders, and is always on target and easily controllable. Since they were paying the instructor I am assuming I feel 99.99% of the blame falls in the deceased. Sucks for him but it was his fault.

[Alleycat72]

There are a bunch of machine guns I would let my 10 year old shoot. A mini uzi is not one of them. I never fired one, but everyone I know that has says that they are near impossible to control.

[surfabilly]

As to the "headline" I wonder who will be sued. The guy responsible already paid with his life so can't blame him. Certainly the business will be sued by the parents.

Who's gonna charge the parents for incredible foolishness and irresponsibility in allowing a 9 year old to shoot a fully automatic weapon?

i wondered the same thing about a potential suit. it's sad that we have come to a point where the question is not "if" a suit will be filed, but who will file the inevitable suit.

i would like to see a story where everyone takes there share of responsibility and moves on.

another note: yahoo news has had this story at the top of there news crawler all day (which is rare a story stays there an hour). at noon it had over 15,000 comments. one recurring theme is that this little girl did not kill the instructor, the gun did. using this story as a refute to the old "guns don't kill people..." adage.

[TMF]

I think we've been using the term "instructor" very loosely.


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[bersaguy]

i wondered the same thing about a potential suit. it's sad that we have come to a point where the question is not "if" a suit will be filed, but who will file the inevitable suit.

i would like to see a story where everyone takes there share of responsibility and moves on.

another note: yahoo news has had this story at the top of there news crawler all day (which is rare a story stays there an hour). at noon it had over 15,000 comments. one recurring theme is that this little girl did not kill the instructor, the gun did. using this story as a refute to the old "guns don't kill people..." adage.

Truth be known stupidity on so many levels of this very serious incident is just overwhelming. A man has lost his life. His family has lost a son, Husband, father. A little girl has more then likely been suffering some kind of shock  because she will carry a guilt with her all of her life for something that really was in no way her fault but she will suffer what she witness that few seconds will be in her mind for ever. That gun did not kill that instructor. That man killed himself with stupidity and I have said for years and will say it as long as I am alive and that is    "You Just Can't Fix Stupid"!!!!!   Prayers I will send for the man, his family and that little girl tonight.

[K191145]

Agreed. I should have worded it differently. I meant when you are going to intruduce them to a full auto. Not their first gun.

 

Years ago I had my nefew shot quite a few 22s from a Marlin model 60 when he was 10 then he really wanted to shoot my SKS, the first mag I had a grip on the forearm, I could see he could handle it okay but I still stayed close by his side for a while. Build them up slowly to the bigger guns.

[bersaguy]

I don't know why all the instructors just don't start all students age 12 and under out on Barrett M82A1 with about 5 magazines and be done with it. If they past the Barrett M82A1 Test they are good to go with anything smaller.........................jmho

[tennessee01tacoma]

^^ big difference in the way a sten shoots and an Uzi from my understanding.

Never shot an Uzi but I know the Uzi has a higher fire rate and the sten had a shoulder stock and is heavier.

[dawgdoc]

One of the news articles said the girl was a tourist from the Northeast.  For all we know, they may have paid for a hour with the instructor, and she might have shot several different guns competently (just unfounded speculation).  Perhaps, in a effort to let her shoot the "coolest" gun at the end of their brief allocated time, he hurried the training because he mistakenly thought she could handle it.  Still a deadly mistake due to complacency, but perhaps less grievous than just handing a little kid a full auto.  I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt; it just seems beyond stupid to let any new shooter go directly from one shot to full auto, but especially a child.

[Dolomite`s Breezy]

Very sad...

 

I don't see the point of a 9 year old shooting a gun like that..

BB or a.22  maybe..

 

I

[analog_kidd]

I read that the range is a popular tourist destination outside Las Vegas, called Burgers and Bullets. I guess you can shoot just about any kind of gun you want there, and enjoy a tasty burger afterward. One thing they specialize in is teaching youth about firearms. I also read that the instructor did have the girl shoot a few times with single rounds loaded, to get the feel for it.

[peejman]

There are a bunch of machine guns I would let my 10 year old shoot. A mini uzi is not one of them. I never fired one, but everyone I know that has says that they are near impossible to control.

 

 

Yep.  And they all weight at least 20 lbs and have bipods or tripods.

 

 

 

 

I read that the range is a popular tourist destination outside Las Vegas, called Burgers and Bullets. I guess you can shoot just about any kind of gun you want there, and enjoy a tasty burger afterward. One thing they specialize in is teaching youth about firearms. I also read that the instructor did have the girl shoot a few times with single rounds loaded, to get the feel for it.

 

 

Interesting.  First few times I shot a slide-fire AR I only put 5 rounds in the mag until I got used to it.  An Uzi pistol running at nearly double the cyclic rate with a full mag?  Don't know that anyone who's never done it before should try that. 

 

I feel bad for the guy's family.  Not only are they without him now, he's being trashed all over the internet.  I agree that what he did was stupid.  Sometimes stupid hurts.  This time it killed.  Shame...

[East_TN_Patriot]

Reading these comments, I think it's interesting to see how many are engaging in the same sort of rhetoric that anti-gun people use for firearms in general (the "why would anyone" type of logic).  Perhaps I am in the minority, but I don't see age as the issue here; it's the level of experience and skill the shooter possesses.  2 years old, 25 years old, or 80 years old, if the shooter is inexperienced and/or unable to effectively maintain safe control of a particular firearm, they shouldn't be using it until they have developed those skills.  If a 9 year old has been shooting since a young age and knows their way around a firearm, it is entirely possible they could safely and effectively handle an UZI.  Why would you let a small kid shoot an UZI?  The same reason any of us might choose to shoot an UZI; it's something we enjoy doing and if done properly, it doesn't result in the unintended death of another person. 

I'm not going to insult anyone involved, but simply say that this is an example of how a seemingly minor lapse in judgement, something we all are guilty of from time-to-time, can lead to a tragic outcome.  The problem here was complacency on the part of the instructor.  My understanding of his background suggests he was reasonably well-trained and knowledgeable, but it seems he had a lapse in judgement in this case and this one cost him his life.  The parents are most certainly second-guessing their decision to allow their child to shoot this firearm, but they trusted the judgement of the instructor who should have known that this inexperienced shooter was not ready for a full-auto sub-machine gun.
 

Edited August 28, 2014 by East_TN_Patriot

[TMF]

This wasn't a "minor lapse in judgment".  Obviously it was pretty major, considering this guy had his head turned into a canoe.

 

Yes, there are times where this would be okay.  In fact, there is that little girl who shoots 3-gun competitions, and can handle a fully auto 5.56 rifle better than most members of our armed forces.  Of course, she has undergone quite a bit of training, and a fully auto rifle has a stock on it.  What this girl was shooting was essentially a pistol with no way to brace.  She clearly would not have the strength to handle it on full auto, and our proof is this guy's brains decorating the ceiling. That and standing forward of the barrel wasn't something "instructors" would do with an untrained child shooting a full auto pistol for the first time.... or maybe it's just something I wouldn't do.

 

No, this wasn't a minor lapse in judgment; this was stupid at it's finest.  Any responsible person would be able to see how this was a huge safety violation on multiple levels.  Luckily the stupid corrected itself and this little girl didn't lose her life.  I recall this happening not too long ago where a little boy shooting a full auto Uzi was killed.  Stupid.  Pure stupid.

[NoBanStan]

Reading these comments, I think it's interesting to see how many are engaging in the same sort of rhetoric that anti-gun people use for firearms in general (the "why would anyone" type of logic).  Perhaps I am in the minority, but I don't see age as the issue here; it's the level of experience and skill the shooter possesses.  

 

I'm with you on this.

 

I would let my 7 year old shoot that UZI. Granted I would:

 

A.) Inspect it first and understand how the weapon functions

B.) Fire it first to have a better understanding of the control

C.) Have my arms around him supporting the weapon

 

I would be the one to pick it up. I would shoulder it on him. I would hold the weight. His role would be to look down the sights and squeeze the trigger. Then when it's empty, I would be the one to clear it and lay it back on the table. 

 

Because I realize he's a kid and that I shouldn't expect that he's going to do everything the right way. Then when he's older, we'll see if he's more capable.

 

That instructor should have known better IMHO. But I wasn't there, so I can only speculate. But as a father... I want the instructor to instruct me... and I handle the kid.

[TMF]

Let me add, if someone was to say, "hey I'm gonna let this 9 year old kid shoot this pistol on full auto" while any of us were at the range, we would all have the same opinion.  We would immediately think that it was a bad idea.  There is a reason for that.  It's a bad idea.  It doesn't take deep thought to consider why.  The results of this scenario are exactly the reasons why I would have thought it was a bad idea.  There is no reputable firearms instructor who wouldn't see this coming.

[gjohnsoniv]

Never shot an Uzi but I know the Uzi has a higher fire rate and the sten had a shoulder stock and is heavier.

Uh I would say the Uzi is heavier than the Sten.

[TMF]

Uh I would say the Uzi is heavier than the Sten.

A full sized Uzi, maybe. I've shot them all. The Sten is much easier to control. It shoots much slower. A full sized Uzi has a stock on it which makes it easier to control. This was a mini Uzi, and no stock was utilized. Many adults would have problems controlling this on full auto.


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[dawgdoc]

It looks like there is a stock in the video (not that it helped).

 

A full sized Uzi, maybe. I've shot them all. The Sten is much easier to control. It shoots much slower. A full sized Uzi has a stock on it which makes it easier to control. This was a mini Uzi, and no stock was utilized. Many adults would have problems controlling this on full auto.

[TMF]

It looks like there is a stock in the video (not that it helped).

Really? I didn't watch the video for obvious reasons, but I saw the stills from it and it looked like a mini Uzi with no stock. Either way, the recoil on a small automatic weapon like that is a lot for little spaghetti arms.


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[gjohnsoniv]

A full sized Uzi, maybe. I've shot them all. The Sten is much easier to control. It shoots much slower. A full sized Uzi has a stock on it which makes it easier to control. This was a mini Uzi, and no stock was utilized. Many adults would have problems controlling this on full auto.


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Ah.  Didn't catch the Mini Uzi part.  Mea culpa.

[dawgdoc]

The video they have been showing stops right has the muzzle rises and starts pointing at the instructor's head; I think it was edited by the police department before it was released.  Early in the video, as he gives it to her, you can see one of those minimal shoulder stocks sticking off (maybe a shoulder thing that goes up?)

[tennessee01tacoma]

It was a mini Uzi with what looked like a wire stock. Again as others have said age isn't the issue in my opinion its lack of experience and guidance that are the problems.