Huey P. Newton Gun Club

[agarzola]

I’ve recently learned of the Huey P. Newton Gun Club demonstrations in Dallas, TX, where a sizable group of black gun owners are protesting police brutality while they open carry. More information here (Reason.com) and here (BearingArms.com).

 

I’ll be perfectly honest here: I’m downright excited about this. While I don’t share their seemingly leftist views, I support their right to open carry in a peaceful demonstration. I don’t need to agree with someone’s politics to recognize their 1st and 2nd amendment rights and support their exercise of these rights. And I’m hopeful that this gun club goes viral and spreads across the country, inspiring other black folks to educate themselves and pursue legal and responsible gun ownership.

 

I couldn’t find a thread discussing this particular topic, so I thought I’d start one. What do you all think? Would you support a peaceful open carry demonstration started —or inspired— by the Huey P. Newton Gun Club protesting police brutality in your town/city?

[TrickyNicky]

If I thought there was a legitimate police brutality problem in my town I would. The timing leads me to believe this is a reactionary protest from the events in MO. If that's the case I think they would be well advised to remove their heads from their butts and start protesting thuggish behavior and attacks on police officers.

[Wiljo05]

Person A attacks, endangers, engages, advances harmfully toward person B.

Whether person A is a cop, daughter, son, husband, wife, family member, smurf, whatever, and person B defends his/herself and person 1 pays the penalty of death or bodily harm, that is not brutality.

Person A made the choice, and has to live or not live with the results.

[agarzola]

I agree, Wiljo. However, whether Brown actually posed an immediate threat to Wilson or anybody else at the time of the shooting is a debated matter. We don’t really know for certain whether he struggled with Wilson, or if he was charging at him at the time he was shot. You might choose to believe the few people who make that claim, but that doesn’t make it true.

 

Beyond that, however, the police’s initial response to peaceful protests in Ferguson was excessive and uncalled for, and their consistent efforts to limit press coverage by threatening, assaulting and detaining members of the press, and restricting air traffic to keep press helicopters away from the scene is profoundly unconstitutional. I believe it is naive to claim that their actions have no bearing in the mess that is currently in their hands.

 

In any case, the Huey P. Newton Gun Club is protesting police brutality in their state. Sure, Ferguson seems to be a catalyst to get them out in the streets, but the fact remains that they are American citizens protesting abuse of force in their communities by the state. I wholeheartedly support that.

[Jonnin]

I would support it if there were a problem.   I sure won't be protesting over that brown case;  the officer was seriously injured and the deceased was a thuggish criminal. 

 

Police brutality is shooting or beating people who are not violent.   I have not seen large numbers of cases of this in my town or even nationally.   Now and again, it does happen -- usually the offending officer is in serious trouble when it does happen. 

[Wiljo05]

Something smells....your thread was about exercising the right to open carry at a demonstration against police brutality. Not whether Officer Wilson was justified.

I addressed the brutality part, nothing more. And in a very open non directional way (ie I even included smurfs). There was no mention of Ferguson or anything else. Simply the fact of the matter that if someone is doing or intending to do harm, they made the choice and anyone (you, me, black, white, doesn't matter) has the RIGHT to defend themselves or others.

As far as protests, if it was happening outside your home or business, would you want a strong force to stop/contain it, or a meek, timid group to politely ask them to leave. The violence begins and ends with a choice. Those folks can choose to act stupid and loot, riot, shoot, throw stones, bottles ect. Or they can choose to peacefully assemble. They chose wrong.

It's funny how your thread took the route I believe you wanted it to go...there are several other threads here on Ferguson, your opinions on whether that was a justified shooting or not might be more on topic there. As this was started as a thread regarding open carry protesting.

Bottom line is play stupid games, get stupid results.

[DaveTN]

We don’t really know for certain whether he struggled with Wilson, or if he was charging at him at the time he was shot.

Yes we do. They were in a fight in the car, the officer was injured and a shot was fired inside the car. That is not in dispute. I just could not care less if the thug was throwing up his hands somewhere between round 2 and round 6.

If anyone decides to open carry in a protest against Police, I don't want to be anywhere around. One nutcase cranks off a round and bodies start dropping.

[agarzola]

Something smells....your thread was about exercising the right to open carry at a demonstration against police brutality. Not whether Officer Wilson was justified.

I addressed the brutality part, nothing more. And in a very open non directional way (ie I even included smurfs). There was no mention of Ferguson or anything else. Simply the fact of the matter that if someone is doing or intending to do harm, they made the choice and anyone (you, me, black, white, doesn't matter) has the RIGHT to defend themselves or others.

As far as protests, if it was happening outside your home or business, would you want a strong force to stop/contain it, or a meek, timid group to politely ask them to leave. The violence begins and ends with a choice. Those folks can choose to act stupid and loot, riot, shoot, throw stones, bottles ect. Or they can choose to peacefully assemble. They chose wrong.

It's funny how your thread took the route I believe you wanted it to go...there are several other threads here on Ferguson, your opinions on whether that was a justified shooting or not might be more on topic there. As this was started as a thread regarding open carry protesting.

Bottom line is play stupid games, get stupid results.

Nothing smells, man. Apologies if I misread your comment. I thought you were referring to the Ferguson case, so I responded openly and, I hope, respectfully. Do let me know if I come across as confrontational, because that is not my intent.

 

To your questions re: protests outside my home or business, I believe what your argument presents a false dilemma. The choice doesn’t need to be armored vehicles vs. “a meek, timid group” of friendly police officers. Strength and authority are not only achievable through a show of brute force. That’s a simplistic view, in my opinion.

 

Having said that, while I won’t shy away from a relevant tangent, my intent is to talk about the HPN Gun Club. However, its correlation with the Ferguson events is undeniable, so I think it’s only reasonable to expect some overlap. It’s that simple. No ulterior motive here.

 

———

 

The reason I’m interested and enthusiastic about it is because it puts a different face on the pro-2A side of the argument. It’s difficult for anti-gun folks to regurgitate their “gun rights are for white people only” argument when a demonstration where guns are prominently displayed in a peaceful, non-threatening manner is composed entirely of black folks. For years, they’ve said over and over again that if the stereotypical white gun owner saw a group of black men carrying rifles down their street, they would freak the hell out and call for more gun control, yet this has largely not been the case.

 

And I think the fact that their demonstration is not centered around the 2nd amendment is a plus, too. Because, while using the 2A right to champion the 2A itself is fine and dandy, the fact that they’re using it to peacefully protest other civil rights issues (even if they are issues one might not agree with on a fundamental level) speaks to that concept pro-2A rhetoric often insists on: that the second amendment is there to allow us to protect our other constitutional rights.

 

I think it’s a brilliant political opportunity for other —specifically white, but also hispanic, asian, and middle eastern— gun owners to speak up and support this group. There’s no need to endorse their message, of course, but I’m making an effort to be vocally supportive of their decision to carry peacefully and lawfully, and to show that I believe in the rights of all Americans, not just those who look or think like me.

Edited August 22, 2014 by agarzola

[DaveTN]

Nothing smells, man. Apologies if I misread your comment. I thought you were referring to the Ferguson case, so I responded openly and, I hope, respectfully. Do let me know if I come across as confrontational, because that is not my intent.
 
To your questions re: protests outside my home or business, I believe what your argument presents a false dilemma. The choice doesn’t need to be armored vehicles vs. “a meek, timid group” of friendly police officers. Strength and authority are not only achievable through a show of brute force. That’s a simplistic view, in my opinion.
 
Having said that, while I won’t shy away from a relevant tangent, my intent is to talk about the HPN Gun Club. However, its correlation with the Ferguson events is undeniable, so I think it’s only reasonable to expect some overlap. It’s that simple. No ulterior motive here.
 
———
 
The reason I’m interested and enthusiastic about it is because it puts a different face on the pro-2A side of the argument. It’s difficult for anti-gun folks to regurgitate their “gun rights are for white people only” argument when a demonstration where guns are prominently displayed in a peaceful, non-threatening manner is composed entirely of black folks. For years, they’ve said over and over again that if the stereotypical white gun owner saw a group of black men carrying rifles down their street, they would freak the hell out and call for more gun control, yet this has largely not been the case.
 
And I think the fact that their demonstration is not centered around the 2nd amendment is a plus, too. Because, while using the 2A right to champion the 2A itself is fine and dandy, the fact that they’re using it to peacefully protest other civil rights issues (even if they are issues one might not agree with on a fundamental level) speaks to that concept pro-2A rhetoric often insists on: that the second amendment is there to allow us to protect our other constitutional rights.
 
I think it’s a brilliant political opportunity for other —specifically white, but also hispanic, asian, and middle eastern— gun owners to speak up and support this group. There’s no need to endorse their message, of course, but I’m making an effort to be vocally supportive of their decision to carry peacefully and lawfully, and to show that I believe in the rights of all Americans, not just those who look or think like me.

I read the first page of that HPN Gun Club you linked. I have to admit I laughed out loud. Didn’t you? Or are you buying into that load of crap?

There are no gun rights involved in that message; they are whining about cops shooting criminals. If they make any headway in their attempt to tie the hands of the Police (and they won’t) the criminals will be at the doors of citizens.

But in the spirit of full disclosure I’m a former cop and I support and respect my local Police. If one of them does something wrong I speak out.

EDIT: Is that webpage yours? Edited August 22, 2014 by DaveTN

[agarzola]

I read the first page of that HPN Gun Club you linked. I have to admit I laughed out loud. Didn’t you? Or are you buying into that load of crap?

There are no gun rights involved in that message; they are whining about cops shooting criminals. If they make any headway in their attempt to tie the hands of the Police (and they won’t) the criminals will be at the doors of citizens.

But in the spirit of full disclosure I’m a former cop and I support and respect my local Police. If one of them does something wrong I speak out.

EDIT: Is that webpage yours?

Haha! No, that page is not mine.

 

I’m well aware that their message has nothing to do with the second amendment. That’s part of the point. Check my latest comment above to see what I mean.

 

I respect and have a great relationship with my local police officers. I don’t see any conflict in having that respect and listening to a group of people whose experience has been different from my own, especially when their community is not served by the same men and women who serve my community.

Edited August 22, 2014 by agarzola

[R_Bert]

they happened to make TTAG - http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/08/robert-farago/anonymous-guide-huey-p-newton-gun-club/

 

"You and the readers of TTAG should know that the “Huey P. Newton Gun Club” appears to be a project of the so-called “New Black Panther Party” (NBPP)."

 

Edited August 23, 2014 by R_Bert

[Wiljo05]

. Edited August 23, 2014 by Wiljo05