Debate!

[Smith]

What are the problems with socialist plans?

They don't teach factual history in grade school anymore!

But seriously; Russia, Brazil, Peru, Argentina, Cuba, China, North Korea, France, England (I think can be added now)........ and the list goes on. I don't want any part of these governments.

[Smith]

Medical Insurance should be abolished as it currently stands. Insurance is for EMERGENCIES, ie auto accidents, home fires, floods, earthquakes, major health issues etc...

Currently instead of paying for health care we are paying for hundreds of worthless bureaucrats who decide what health care we can have instead of us paying our doctors directly and getting the care the doctor and patient decide on. Bureaucrats are only there to make the process cost more and that is all insurance truly adds.

We have to get back to the society we were where we as individuals took care of ourselves rather than letting a bunch of barely educated bureaucrats make all our decisions for us.

Oh and please note most of the people "without Health insurance are young people with no kids who have CHOSEN to not take health insurance.

+1. what's the difference between health care in the 50's (affordable and available) and the current health care problems? The government got their meddling hands on it.

[Guest Honest AK]

I wont matter what source material I send you, your mind is made up and my sources wont matter. Check the figures the government releases before you go with a socialized health care advocate, they are a lot closer to reality.

There is a 150 years of failed socialist polices to look at and that doesn't matter.

The excuse is that socialist just hasn't been tried the "right way" yet.

The catch is that it has been tried every way people can think of and it has yet to perform as advertised and its failures have been blamed on capitalism. That is why Jim Quinn came up with the following laws of liberalism

Quinn’s Laws of Liberalism-

• 
  
  • 1. Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of its stated intent.
    
  • 2. If you want to know what liberals are up to, pay attention to what they accuse the conservatives of.
    
  • 3. The amount of wealth in any given area is inversely proportional to the amount of Democrats running it.
    
  • 4. Liberalism only succeeds when the public is scared into believing that it will not survive without it.
    
  • 5. When liberalism conflicts with reality, reality must give way.
    
  • 6. Facts are the enemy of liberalism.
    
  • 7. Things are different when you are a Democrat [regarding his allegations of the media's ignorance towards Democratic scandals and misconduct].
    
  • 8. A Liberal is any person for whom two thousand years of human experience and history means nothing now that they are here.
    
  • 9. To liberals, intentions are more significant than the outcomes they achieve.
    
  • 10. Liberals never think what they are doing is wrong, they only think they haven’t done enough of it yet or it is underfunded.
    
  • 11. Profiling is what groups call bigotry when they have a problem they don’t want to talk about.
    
  • 12. Democrats and liberals do not engage in debate, they try to silence you. If they engaged in debate, they’d lose.
    
  • 13. Democrats are political opportunists.
    
  • 14. Liberalism is based on unproven and/or disproven theory.
    
  • 15. Every culture is unquestionable except the West’s
    
  • 16. Liberals view the world the way they think it should be, not the way it is.
    
  • 17. Being a liberal is the art of standing on ones own head and telling the rest of the world that they are upside down.
    

Why do you continue with this notion that I'm for socialized health care? How many times do I have to say it? It's the last thing I want for our health care "system".

What I'm saying is that the Republican attitude of "I'm doing fine so screw everybody else" is exactly what is going to lead us to socialized health care. Denying the fact that it's a big problem isn't going to make it go away.

Like I said, show me the numbers that prove the uninsured are mostly single people, without kids, that refuse to work or refuse coverage.

[Guest Honest AK]

I have a question for you Obama haters.

Are there any negative personal and/or political qualities you see in George Bush III -- Oooops, I mean McCain?

I notice you didn't get many responses. What a surprise.

[clarky07]

this is why obama's health care won't work in america. too many lazy bastards who want stuff for free and don't want to work for it.

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/10/17/axe-falls-on-program-to-insure-all-children-in-hawaii/

hawaii tried to insure all children. people who already had health care and could afford it dropped their health care to take the "free" health care. the system went bankrupt in 7 months.

this is why socialism fails. when "spread the wealth" as obama wants to do, you lessen the incentive to work hard and get ahead. this creates a society that is even lazier than the one we have now. people won't work if they can do just as well by not working. this is why free-market capitalism has been proven to be the best system. people have to work hard to get ahead and it makes all of society better because of it.

[clarky07]

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/8/31/164557.shtml

here are some numbers on uninsured. 1/3 make over 50k. lets just say i make considerably less than that and can afford health insurance. in Massachusetts where Romney put a plan for insuring everyone into place with subsidies and fines, they found that about 50% of the uninsured could afford it.

[Guest Honest AK]

this is why obama's health care won't work in america. too many lazy bastards who want stuff for free and don't want to work for it.

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/10/17/axe-falls-on-program-to-insure-all-children-in-hawaii/

hawaii tried to insure all children. people who already had health care and could afford it dropped their health care to take the "free" health care. the system went bankrupt in 7 months.

this is why socialism fails. when "spread the wealth" as obama wants to do, you lessen the incentive to work hard and get ahead. this creates a society that is even lazier than the one we have now. people won't work if they can do just as well by not working. this is why free-market capitalism has been proven to be the best system. people have to work hard to get ahead and it makes all of society better because of it.

What we have now isn't working either. That's not an argument for socialized health care but for health care reform.

[Guest Honest AK]

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/8/31/164557.shtml

here are some numbers on uninsured. 1/3 make over 50k. lets just say i make considerably less than that and can afford health insurance. in Massachusetts where Romney put a plan for insuring everyone into place with subsidies and fines, they found that about 50% of the uninsured could afford it.

That's only one third. How many of those 15-16 million people are uninsured because they declined coverage? How many are uninsured because the insurance companies decline to offer affordable coverage?

[towerclimber37]

I notice you didn't get many responses. What a surprise.

lets see. I don't like his policies on immigration reform. I don't like his ideas on healthcare reform.

actually Honest AK, most of the folks here would vote the McCain/Palin ticket just for Palin.

[NuTcAsE]

lets see. I don't like his policies on immigration reform. I don't like his ideas on healthcare reform.

actually Honest AK, most of the folks here would vote the McCain/Palin ticket just for Palin.

Don't forget McCain/Feingold. Palin is the ONLY reason I'll vote for McCain. I was either gonna vote Libertarian, or write in my name. NuTcAsE for Prez!

[strickj]

Its weird that people fail to think about how all those "lazy" uninsured people are getting health care now.

You!

These people must use emergency rooms for their care.The single most expensive form of health care.It doesn't matter if their "lazy",cant afford it,not offered it,are illegally in the US,single,with kids,or no kids.

Each trip they take to the ER,they are billed 40 dollars for a flipping bandaid.They are not paying that!You are.

On top of that,you pay for Medicare.You pay for Medicaid.You pay for your personal health coverage.So how this could get any worse,or any more expensive,beats me

All I know is that the Right side wants to ignore it.

Honest AK;173691]What I'm saying is that the Republican attitude of "I'm doing fine so screw everybody else" is exactly what is going to lead us to socialized health care.

And the Left side at least has an idea of how to fix it.It may not be the best idea,but its an idea

Edited October 19, 2008 by strickj

[Guest Honest AK]

lets see. I don't like his policies on immigration reform. I don't like his ideas on healthcare reform.

actually Honest AK, most of the folks here would vote the McCain/Palin ticket just for Palin.

Are you hoping McCain will win and then become ill or die shortly after the first of the year? Why else would you base your vote on the VP candidate?

Edited October 19, 2008 by Honest AK
fixed a spellin' error

[TripleDigitRide]

The "lazy" people are the ones without healthcare? That can't be factual.

With the majority of lazy people being on welfare and already receiving tax payer funded healthcare, I have a hard time buying the above statement.

Everyone knows, if you don't feel like getting a job so you can obtain some sort of healthcare, the government will give it to you for free. These government programs give no incentive to actually work for anything. The government makes being a complete loser all too easy. It's no wonder so many people take advantage of the system.

[fury2neon]

Why do you continue with this notion that I'm for socialized health care? How many times do I have to say it? It's the last thing I want for our health care "system".

Because its the solution you argued for.

[Guest Honest AK]

Because its the solution you argued for.

That is absolutely not true. I only pointed out that the system we have is not getting the job done and that pretending it's not a problem will eventually turn public sentiment in favor of socialized health care.

The solutions are going to have to come from people a lot smarter than me.

[clarky07]

Everyone knows, if you don't feel like getting a job so you can obtain some sort of healthcare, the government will give it to you for free. These government programs give no incentive to actually work for anything. The government makes being a complete loser all too easy. It's no wonder so many people take advantage of the system.

This is exactly why making it even easier is very silly.

[Guest Dean_JC78]

the solution to Health care is simple. Part of the beauty of the free market is that we say we are humble enough to allow nature to takes its course as we step back.

So what do we do? We de-regulate, we toss out lame lawsuits which drive up the costs, allow compaines to compete in any state, and exempt patients from tax. No more forcing people to get insurance at their company and locking it down to state by state. Allow freedom to take hold and it will shatter the costs.

[strickj]

The "lazy" people are the ones without healthcare? That can't be factual.

With the majority of lazy people being on welfare and already receiving tax payer funded health care, I have a hard time buying the above statement.

Everyone knows, if you don't feel like getting a job so you can obtain some sort of health care, the government will give it to you for free. These government programs give no incentive to actually work for anything. The government makes being a complete loser all too easy. It's no wonder so many people take advantage of the system.

NO,what I am saying is that the millions that have no health care[reads none,not under insured,not government HC,but just-n-o-n-e-] have to use emergency rooms for their medical needs.If they are unable to pay for HC,how will they pay for a 40 dollar band-aid.They dont.You pay for it.You may not think you do,but you do.It just doesn't go away.

It also doesn't matter why they have no HC.They just dont.Simply put.

This country will always care for its people.These uninsured folks just wont go away,nor will they go untreated.

I'm not saying I support Universal Health Care,I'm saying I'm not against anything differently then whats in place now.

If a socialized system is the only thing available,then it will have to do.

if you don't feel like getting a job so you can obtain some sort of health care, the government will give it to you for free.

Thats false.Most recipients are unable to work,or have such low incomes that are not able to provide for their kids.

It took me two years before the government ever offered me anything after my wreck.

I was durn lucky that I was insured where I worked and was able to carry that on into my unemployment during my recovery.

Edited October 20, 2008 by strickj

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

The "lazy" people are the ones without healthcare? That can't be factual.

With the majority of lazy people being on welfare and already receiving tax payer funded health care, I have a hard time buying the above statement.

Everyone knows, if you don't feel like getting a job so you can obtain some sort of health care, the government will give it to you for free. These government programs give no incentive to actually work for anything. The government makes being a complete loser all too easy. It's no wonder so many people take advantage of the system.

backspace backspace...

Edited October 20, 2008 by GLOCKGUY