This really breaks my heart.

[gregintenn]

I agree with the point you are making to an extent. I would also say that as long as there is good, there will always be evil. Should we stand by and allow evil to win just because the battle to defeat it is longer and more difficult that we would like? Not trying to be argumentative by any means, just asking a "philosophical" question...

Why should evil win? Why can't those people get off their collective duffs and defend themselves instead of us sending our children over there to do it for them? Were we invaded, would they come help us?

[jacob]

Probably not....but it just doesn't make it right in my mind to allow people to be slaughtered either because no one would return the favor...

[gregintenn]

Probably not....but it just doesn't make it right in my mind to allow people to be slaughtered either because no one would return the favor...

I'll be the first to admit I don't know much about Iraq, but honestly, I don't give two hoots about anyone who calls it home.

[RobertNashville]

If you don't care about innocent people than you don't care; that's your choice and your right.

 

For me, I'm thankful that there are people who do care about others...those are the kinds that become police officers, fire fighters, soldiers and doctors and nurses. Personally, I have had periods in my life when I didn't care much for other human beings but I found it to be a pretty empty existence.

 

The U.S. can't change the world but if we aren't willing to help innocent populations when it's within our power to do so then what the hell good are we?

[TMF]

[quote name="gregintenn" post="1178101" timestamp="1407716872"]I'll be the first to admit I don't know much about Iraq, but honestly, I don't give two hoots about anyone who calls it home.[/quote] Many of the good people I used to know have been slaughtered or displaced. Just a few years ago these men took on the task of fighting the extremists alone, as we stepped back. Many of those dudes had experienced many years of war. Unlike me who was able to return to the states after a deployment, these men lived it everyday. They saw their buddies maimed and killed. Some of them had family members murdered, simply because they see related to a man in uniform. These people were no different than you or I. They just wanted to scrape out a living and raise a family. Now many if them are dead. Not much we can do for those brave dudes in the Sunni Arab sector, but we can help the Kurds, Yazidis and Assyrians. No reason not to. They are not our enemy, yet they are being slaughtered by our enemy. Let's lob some bombs and help them out a bit if we can. I realize those folks me nothing to you, but they mean something to somebody, and they don't deserve what is happening to them. These are the type of people I joined to help. I fought along side these people, and they risked their life for me and I for them. Now they are desperate, and no one is willing to help them.

[btq96r]

The Kurds have plenty.  If they are sponging off Baghdad for ammo it's because they see it as an opportunity to keep their current stuff from getting too depleted.  I saw a glimpse into what they ran off with after Saddam's Army crumbled.  Paired with what they've been slid in the years following I don't believe they could be anywhere close to rounds complete, especially since the Peshmerga (regulars) haven't been involved in any of the heavy fighting during the war.  The Peshmerga that were south of the Green Line during those days were getting their supply from the Iraqi Gov. 

 

They ain't stupid.  They ain't gonna use all their own stuff when they can get it from us and Baghdad.

 

I don't think the Kurds aren't as well supplied as you think.  Take into account what they are up against with how much territory they have to defend, and they could run out fast enough if nobody steps in.  We haven't been supplying them for a bit since the administration decided that might undermine the government in Baghdad. 

 

The Kurds need heavier stuff like artillery rounds, RPG's and anti-armor weapons, not just small arms ammo if they are going to hold the line.  If they were good to go, we wouldn't have to drop bombs to help protect our consulate in Erbil, they wouldn't have lost control of the Mosul Dam, and airlines wouldn't be canceling flights into Erbil for security concerns.

 

The Peshmerga are the best troops I saw over there, but even the best troops need a decent supply chain to feed their heavy weapons with the kind of fighting that is going on right now.

 

So what are those who VOLUNTEER to join the service signing up for??

 

I signed up for any lawful order given to me.  I didn't agree with our need to invade Iraq in 2003, but I was there and crossed the border when the order to move out was given to my unit. 

 

There isn't a Soldier past, present or future who agrees with every order they get.  But if it's a legit order, they carry it out anyway because that's what professionals do.

[Hershmeister]

[quote name="RobertNashville" post="1178163" timestamp="1407722822"]If you don't care about innocent people than you don't care; that's your choice and your right. For me, I'm thankful that there are people who do care about others...those are the kinds that become police officers, fire fighters, soldiers and doctors and nurses. Personally, I have had periods in my life when I didn't care much for other human beings but I found it to be a pretty empty existence. The U.S. can't change the world but if we aren't willing to help innocent populations when it's within our power to do so then what the hell good are we?[/quote] Great post!!

[TMF]

[quote name="btq96r" post="1178235" timestamp="1407740178"]I don't think the Kurds aren't as well supplied as you think. Take into account what they are up against with how much territory they have to defend, and they could run out fast enough if nobody steps in. [url="http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/07/31/uk-iraq-security-usa-arms-idUKKBN0G02NW20140731"]We haven't been supplying them for a bit since the administration decided that might undermine the government in Baghdad.[/url] The Kurds need heavier stuff like artillery rounds, RPG's and anti-armor weapons, not just small arms ammo if they are going to hold the line. If they were good to go, we wouldn't have to drop bombs to help protect our consulate in Erbil, [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/08/world/middleeast/isis-forces-in-iraq.html?_r=0"]they wouldn't have lost control of the Mosul Dam[/url], and [url="http://english.alarabiya.net/en/business/aviation-and-transport/2014/08/08/Turkish-Airlines-halts-flights-to-Erbil-.html"]airlines wouldn't be canceling flights into Erbil[/url] for security concerns. The Peshmerga are the best troops I saw over there, but even the best troops need a decent supply chain to feed their heavy weapons with the kind of fighting that is going on right now. [/quote] I'm not talking about how much small arms stuff they have. They made off with crap loads of tanks and artillery. Not saying we shouldn't continue to provide, just that I doubt their situation is as dire as it's made out to be. The Kurds could be armed with nothing but pitch forks and they'd still a force too great to allow Irbil to fall.

[xjsnake]

About the only native force in that area that isn't hardcore radical islamic extreamists is the Kurds, start arming the Kurds with some decent weaponery.

 

Looks like that's what they are doing.

 

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140811/NATION/308110050/1361/U.S.-arming-Kurdish-fighters-in-Iraq

[Wyldk2]

Not to be sarcastic but could you provide supporting documentarion and facts to support your assertion? Additionally as I stated there are fringe groups in many areas not just religion I did not state all were bad. However again if someone calls for the death of anyone based on their religious views that is terrorism. As precviously stated Islam is not a religion.

Persecution for heresy and blasphemy[edit]

Main articles: Heresy and Blasphemy

See also: Christian heresy and Heresy in Orthodox Judaism

The persecution of beliefs that are deemed schismatic is one thing; the persecution of beliefs that are deemed heretic or blasphemous is another. Although a public disagreement on secondary matters might be serious enough, it has often only led to religious discrimination. A public renouncement of core elements of a religious doctrine under the same circumstances, on the other hand, would have put one far greater danger. While a dissenter from its official Church was only faced with fines and imprisonment in Protestant England, six people were executed for heresy or blasphemy during the reign of Elizabeth I, and two more in 1612 under James I.^[14]

Similarly, heretical sects like Cathars, Waldensians and Lollards were brutally suppressed in western Europe, while, at the same time, Catholic Christians lived side-by-side with 'schismatic' Orthodox Christians after the East-West Schism in the borderland of eastern Europe.^[15]

 

^{This per Wikipedia.}

^{And i was taught the same in world history when I was in college.}

 

^{A lot has changed, since here in the US there is supposed to be freedom of religion. though it sometimes is not entirely free.}

[Wyldk2]

I'm not going to get into a religious debate or a political one. I'm just stating that all religions face persecution at one time or another. And christianity has not always been the peaceful religion you are taught in sunday school.

 

That being said, I am a baptist christian. I know i'm not perfect and i never try to be. I know I won't condemn the whole group for what one small sect has done.

[Hershmeister]

History is not important - its what these folks are doing TODAY that matters