Gutting Our Military

[Cherokee Slim]

Granted, in my younger days I made tongue-in-cheek comments about the Army as well as those guy who float around all the time in their little boats.  Serious comments made at 17 years old quickly grew into respect when I watched brothers in arms from all services bleed and die for this country that we all hold so dear.  

 

Now I watch as 1200 Army Captains last month are being downsized, with almost 600 Majors announced yesterday.  They are gutting the men and women who have the experience and moral fortitude to keep our military running at least semi-efficiently.  I assume staff NCOs are also part of the cuts as well.

 

It greaves me to see our country falling so far so fast.  The only sure thing is that sooner or later that "From the halls of Montazuma to the shores of Tripoli" will go from beloved hymn to boots on the ground again, with more of our young people dying.

 

Cherokee Slim

Sergeant of Marines

1968-1972

Edited August 3, 2014 by Cherokee Slim

[bersaguy]

Of course he is removing as many high ranking military personnel as he can as fast as he can because he is scared to death of our military and any possible plans he has for our country in his last 2 + years in Office. He knows for a fact that most of or about 95%+ will not follow any orders he may give against the Civilian Americans that goes against any part of our Constitution or their moral aspects so he must find younger and more manipulative lower ranking officers that he can still brainwash into doing his deeds. All in all I think he is going to be hard pressed to find very many real men at all that will follow him when push comes to shove...........jmho 

[DMark]

Its just like the Clinton purges from the mid-late 90s. 

 

Back then it was to "right-sized" the Army for the "peace dividend" that was suppose to pay down the national debt.  We know how well that money was spent! 

[DWARREN123]

Not the first RIF (reduction in force) I have seen or lived thru. Always ends badly for our military down the road.

A smaller force that does more with good training and equipment is always a dream of many but it never seems to work out that way.

[Grand Torino]

Not the first RIF (reduction in force) I have seen or lived thru. Always ends badly for our military down the road.

A smaller force that does more with good training and equipment is always a dream of many but it never seems to work out that way.

You're right. My wife and I have lived through several of the RIF's and all it does is weaken our defense and makes remaining people do more for less. As the OP stated.....this entire mess breaks my heart.

[Major Kong]

I am definitely not in the same military I joined 21 years ago. Like Torino says, it absolutely breaks my heart.

[R1100R]

I was at a meeting a few months ago with the Canadian Military. They are 35K strong. When I asked the Canadian SGM why their defense force is so small, he stated they didn't need a large standing force because they have us to the South.

 

The enlisted side of this has been getting crushed for a couple of years. the enlisted corps is being gutted.

 

 The Army is looking at the Reserve Component as a operational force now rather than a strategic reserve. 

[DaveTN]

What do these numbers mean? How many Captains and Majors are there now?

I have to assume they aren’t cutting these military members, so am I safe in assuming this is attrition of the positions?

I truly believe Obama is doing everything in his power to hurt this country before he leaves office, but is that what is going on or are these reductions due to technology or other factors?

Does Congress vote on these cuts?

These are serious questions, sorry, I just don’t buy into the “Obama is cutting those that won’t turn on Americans”; that can’t even be a part of a serious discussion... in my opinion.

[R1100R]

It is about money. The war is winding down. Each Army  division is loosing one Brigade Combat Team. The loss will be replace by a NG BCT that will become attached to that division for practical purposes. The war is winding down. A large standing Military cost money. The Reserves are cheaper.. This has happened after every war.

 

Majority of the worlds militaries or defense forces are small with a large reserve if needed. 

[Garufa]

There are many thousands of officers.  The question is what is the criteria for one getting "down sized".

[Ugly]

It is about money. The war is winding down. Each Army division is loosing one Brigade Combat Team. The loss will be replace by a NG BCT that will become attached to that division for practical purposes. The war is winding down. A large standing Military cost money. The Reserves are cheaper.. This has happened after every war.

Majority of the worlds militaries or defense forces are small with a large reserve if needed.

If it was about money, don't you think he'd be saving it? He's redistributing it. What happened to the NASA savings? Look at the debt
http://usadebtclock.com
http://www.usdebtclock.org
It's about knocking us down to size inmo

[QuietDan]

This is a stupid cyclical "pay me now or pay me later" move. We downsize the military, the adversaries see an opportunity, chaos ensues, the troops in reserve are recalled to active duty at great expense under desperate circumstances. All becomes a crisis and we throw money at it to fix it.

 

I know this personally, having been downsized in the great Cold War Drawdown in 1992. By 2001, I was recalled to active duty and given a regular commission to deal with the post-9/11 crisis. 

 

The cycle begins again. It is sooooo stupid and wasteful.

[JayC]

Question:  How big of a military do we need to protect us at home?

 

Answer: A lot smaller of a military than we'll have after these cuts.

Edited August 3, 2014 by JayC

[QuietDan]

Question:  How big of a military do we need to protect us at home?

 

Answer: A lot smaller of a military than we'll have after these cuts.

 

By the time the adversary is on your doorstep, it is TOO LATE.

[Ugly]

Question: How big of a military do we need to protect us at home?

Answer: A lot smaller of a military than we'll have after these cuts.

If we don't keep them at bay elsewhere, they will be at our home.

[DaveTN]

By the time the adversary is on your doorstep, it is TOO LATE.

 
 

If we don't keep them at bay elsewhere, they will be at our home.

Give me a scenario where any county in the world could (or would) attempt to put boots on the ground in the U.S.?

[Ugly]

Russia and China have been testy lately. Have you heard about the subs spotted off our coast?
http://www.opinion-maker.org/2010/11/chinese-submarine-was-not-the-first-on-us-coast/
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/11/06/report-second-russian-nuclear-submarine-off-u-s-coast-in-three-months-spotted-during-sandy/
I have personally witnessed a Russian spy ship in one of our ports in FL to wait out a storm off our coast.
Add the rusky listening post in Cuba re opening as well as having a person in office that wants to knock us down to size. The chances are good in my opinion.
Oh, I forgot to mention the amount of Islamic centers in the us (look em up near you) and the open border. Edited August 3, 2014 by Ugly

[DaveTN]

Russia and China have been testy lately. Have you heard about the subs spotted off our coast?
http://www.opinion-maker.org/2010/11/chinese-submarine-was-not-the-first-on-us-coast/
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/11/06/report-second-russian-nuclear-submarine-off-u-s-coast-in-three-months-spotted-during-sandy/
I have personally witnessed a Russian spy ship in one of our ports in FL to wait out a storm off our coast.
Add the rusky listening post in Cuba re opening as well as having a person in office that wants to knock us down to size. The chances are good in my opinion.
Oh, I forgot to mention the amount of Islamic centers in the us (look em up near you) and the open border.

Are those the scenarios?

I know the Russians have subs off our coast; they always have had. We do the same to them. What do you think those subs will do?

The Islamic centers will be dealt with locally if they become a problem. And unless posse comitatus is repealed (and it will be some day) the border is not a military issue now.

I’m not making any arguments for cutting military spending; I just don’t understand how anyone would think that would lead to an invasion of our country.

[Ugly]

Im not going to make up a scenario, because with the surest state of affairs anything is possible. The invasion would make sense to start from within. We have shown the russians we have no backbone, and since they don't have the manpower their chinese buddies could make up the difference. I don't know what subs will do nor do I know what the teleprompter in chief whispered in putins ear. All I can think is it isn't good at all. 

 

Do you not think people other than poor little kids from s. america are coming across the border? Signs of muslims and chinese have been discovered at the border. This has obviously been a lot more active in the last few years so none really knows who is here. Look around when you are out and about, thats all I can say. 

[Erik88]

For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone would want us to have a smaller, less capable military. What possible advantage does that have other than saving money?

 

I'm just as concerned about our debt as anyone on this forum, but cutting military spend is not what I had hoped for. 

 

Has anyone read the Enemies Trilogy by Matt Bracken? By end end of the 3rd book I almost got nauseous when I started connecting all the dots to our own situation. 

Edited August 3, 2014 by Erik88

[Links2k]

I don't buy into the "He's trying to destroy the country before he leaves" theory. To me Obama is just another in a long line of crappy politicians that the people of this country has chosen to lead us'

Like many others here, I have served and fought for this country. I have also seen the reductions in force before. As someone stated, it makes no sense to have a large peace time military. I also don't worry about anyone invading us. Our biggest threats from China and Russia are economic.

Lastly, I believe that our military is too large and could stand to continue becoming smaller, lighter and more lethal. A lot of us are older and can't fathom a military without thousands of tanks and aircraft on the battlefield. Thanks to modern technology those days are almost over. In the future when we have to put boots on the ground, they will still be the best trained and prepared fighting force that the world had ever known.

[DaveTN]

Im not going to make up a scenario, because with the surest state of affairs anything is possible. The invasion would make sense to start from within. We have shown the russians we have no backbone, and since they don't have the manpower their chinese buddies could make up the difference. I don't know what subs will do nor do I know what the teleprompter in chief whispered in putins ear. All I can think is it isn't good at all. 
 
Do you not think people other than poor little kids from s. america are coming across the border? Signs of muslims and chinese have been discovered at the border. This has obviously been a lot more active in the last few years so none really knows who is here. Look around when you are out and about, thats all I can say.

Oh I agree with what you are saying about criminals crossing or borders. But again, that doesn’t have anything to do with the military. If the military were to start getting ready to protect the borders Alex Jones and his followers that have their tin foil hats screwed on so tight they are cutting off circulation to their brains will be trying to convince you they are preparing for an assault on residential neighborhoods.

Russia, China attacks us? What’s changed in the last 60 years? MAD... It’s still in effect. Beijing, Moscow and all their major cities.. Gone. Why would they do that?

If we are going to lose our country we are going to lose it to the liberals and the criminals that will destroy it while we are looking for threat that doesn’t exist. Edited August 3, 2014 by DaveTN

[Erik88]

I don't buy into the "He's trying to destroy the country before he leaves" theory. To me Obama is just another in a long line of crappy politicians that the people of this country has chosen to lead us'

Like many others here, I have served and fought for this country. I have also seen the reductions in force before. As someone stated, it makes no sense to have a large peace time military. I also don't worry about anyone invading us. Our biggest threats from China and Russia are economic.

Lastly, I believe that our military is too large and could stand to continue becoming smaller, lighter and more lethal. A lot of us are older and can't fathom a military without thousands of tanks and aircraft on the battlefield. Thanks to modern technology those days are almost over. In the future when we have to put boots on the ground, they will still be the best trained and prepared fighting force that the world had ever known.

 

But why? You didn't answer my question. What advantage do we have in gutting our military? Other than saving money. 

[JayC]

Because it doesn't protect us in anyway shape or form here at home where it matters?  Nobody is going to invade this country...  the civilian population if too well armed, and if we'd repeal the Hughes Amendment we'd be ever better armed.

 

Here is one example of how you cut the military by a lot and not impact our ability to fight anybody who attacks us.

 

* With the exception of Pentagon, training commands - basic, and AIT, shutdown the entire active duty Army.  Move all the BCT of the current Active Duty Army and Reserves into the National Guard.  Remove the obvious overlaps...  Add 9-12 BCT's in addition to the Army/Reserve migration.

 

* Again with the exceptions of the Pentagon, NORAD/Space Command and training commands, move all Air Force, and Air Force Reserve units into the Air National Guard.  Removing all the overlapping commands.   Move dedicated CAS aircraft to the Army National Guard.  Move SIGINT/JSTAR/AWACs to the Navy, and Special Operations aircraft to JSOC/Navy.

 

* Double the size of the Marine Corp, closing down the Marine Corp Reserves in the process.  Move all fixed and rotary wing units to the Navy.

 

* Keep the Navy for the most part as is..  add 2 or 3 carrier groups to the current roster.

 

* Move JSOC into a true fifth branch of the military, move all JSOC attached units to that command and cutting the strings back to their home services completely, remove all overlapping training commands.

 

* Closed down all bases outside of US territory, create a limited number of joint bases with the Navy/Marines/host country.  The host country will provide the land/port free of charge and we'll build the infrastructure, and keep a complete war fighting package at each joint base to quickly respond to any threat.  Create 2 in Europe - Probably German/Poland and Italy/Turkey..  1 in Asia - South Korea, 1 Middle East - UEA/Qatar, 1 Africa - Djibouti, 2 Australia, 1 South America.  And no other bases Naval, or land base allowed without approval of congress.

 

* NG and ANG units would pull a 1 year tour at one of the above bases every 6 years to provide maintenance and security, Naval, Marine and JSOC units would be permanently stationed at these bases as well.

 

That closes over 900 foreign military bases, and drastically reduces the cost of the military...  and in no way shape or form reduces our ability to protect ourselves.

 

If we're attacked at home, we'd have plenty of training NG troops to engage the fight while we spun up military training of the civilian population..  If we were attacked here at home, but had to respond overseas, we'd have pre-positioned military assets, and a small force already in place ready to go until we could move forces from here to those bases and onto the war zone.

 

FYI, this plan would cut the cost of our current military by more than half.  

 

But why? You didn't answer my question. What advantage do we have in gutting our military? Other than saving money. 

Edited August 3, 2014 by JayC

[Ugly]

We're not doing to save any money. That's what is scarier.
I haven't read the enemies trilogy but have read a few other scenarios. Including the constitution course from hillsdale college. The movement is from within from what I can see.
The whole "it can't happen here" mentality is dead.
Scary times ahead I'm afraid. Hope I'm wrong.