So I now own a trust, thanks John Wells

[Dolomite_supafly]

After what has probably been several years of debating I have finally decided to get a trust. The first thing going into it will be my newly purchased M85 PAP as I turn it into a Krinkov replica. Then I start the expensive process of transferring the rest of my NFA items into the trust.

 

What prompted me was several things but the biggest is not having to deal with our newly elected sheriff. Another big thing was how painless getting the trust actually was and I can thank John Wells for that. Within 30 minutes of first contacting him I had all my trust documents, which were personalized to me. He definitely made it quick and painless as well as answering all the questions I had regarding the trust.

 

If you need a trust, or just want a trust, I would strongly recommend John Wells.

[Fourtyfive]

How much does it cost to transfer items ?

[reed1285]

^ this, and if you dont mind me asking what he charges to set one up. pm me if you would like. I've been thinking of getting one myself.

[Dolomite_supafly]

As far as pricing you need to contact him directly. I cannot speak for his prices but I say I was pleased with what it cost me as well as how quick it was completed.

 

The cost to transfer from me to my trust is the same as if I were buying new items, $200. I am transferring all the items I made in my name to my trust. In the eyes of the ATF they are two separate entities so I have to pay the $200 for each item again.

[Fourtyfive]

What is the advantage to this ?

[hipower]

What is the advantage to this ?

And is there a waiting period involved with transferring items into the trust, as in when you first applied? Or is simply a paperwork issue? Edited July 31, 2014 by hipower

[cj0e]

What is the advantage to this ?

 

Here's what I understand about it (non-lawyer, have one mailed in NFA Form 4 being processed - at about month 3 now)

 

A trust doesn't currently require Photo, Fingerprints, or CLEO (chief law enforcement officer) signoff. A trust can be e-filed (or could, until the system got overwhelmed. Form 1's are back up AFAIK)

 

Normal individual transfer: You have to get CLEO signature - in many areas this amounts to a defacto ban. Others it's just an inconvenience. I couldn't make it to the office in Nashville, so I mailed mine in, got it mailed back. Added about 2.5 weeks to sending it in. Then you get pics made (extra cost if you have them made at walgreens/cvs/etc). Then you get fingerprint cards done - luckily I work with some LEO and they took mine on the cards. Otherwise it's an extra trip in to the CLEO office for yours. Then you mail everything in - and wait a Year (more or less).

 

Trust: Skip the crap, go straight to mail everything in (or if e-file comes up then e-file). Wait a year (or if e-file comes back up and isn't overly congested, 2-6 months)

 

Finally, a trust can have multiple trustees who if the trust is prepared properly can be in posession of the device since it's owned by the trust.

 

Still have to wait and pay as you transfer the items to the trust. It gives peace of mind knowing your family isn't going to get in trouble by being in posession of an NFA item (even having access to the safe where they're stored could be considered posession, I think). Trust is definitely a good way to go. I would've, but I don't have anyone I would want to put on it with me, so just went the individual route.

[GlockSpock]

So what about the whole fiasco about "no more trusts"?

[btq96r]

Trust: Skip the crap, go straight to mail everything in (or if e-file comes up then e-file). Wait a year (or if e-file comes back up and isn't overly congested, 2-6 months)

 

Form 1 has been back up on e-file for a little over a month now.  Aside from being offline on Wednesdays from 6am-6pm EST for maintenance, it seems to be working within acceptable parameters.

 

I used it three weeks ago to submit an SBR application.  All I had to do besides fill out the form online was upload my trust documents.  A simple .pdf at 3MB uploaded with no issues.  My payment was processed the next day and I had a control number on my application the day after that.  Now I'm just waiting for approval or corrections.

Edited July 31, 2014 by btq96r

[JeffL]

I'm not sure I'd pay to transfer the existing items. I'd be very interested in seeing how the stock will attach to your Krink.

[GlockSpock]

So when e-file is working and is not overloaded, are approvals typically quicker?

[mcordell]

So when e-file is working and is not overloaded, are approvals typically quicker?

My form 4 (for a suppressor) was e-filed on 4/1 and I got approved 7/25 .... So yes ....when it's working properly it has proven to be the faster method

[Dolomite_supafly]

I'm not sure I'd pay to transfer the existing items. I'd be very interested in seeing how the stock will attach to your Krink.

 

This is how I am attaching it.

http://manticorearms.com/Triangle-Stock-MA-5100.htm

$105 for the stock and $55 for the hinge. The makers modeled after an actual Krink they had in their possession. And although it is not identical it definitely does it justice. And because it will be on a trust, with my wife, it can be tossed in the truck for her without me being there.

 

[Dolomite_supafly]

Here's what I understand about it (non-lawyer, have one mailed in NFA Form 4 being processed - at about month 3 now)

 

A trust doesn't currently require Photo, Fingerprints, or CLEO (chief law enforcement officer) signoff. A trust can be e-filed (or could, until the system got overwhelmed. Form 1's are back up AFAIK)

 

Normal individual transfer: You have to get CLEO signature - in many areas this amounts to a defacto ban. Others it's just an inconvenience. I couldn't make it to the office in Nashville, so I mailed mine in, got it mailed back. Added about 2.5 weeks to sending it in. Then you get pics made (extra cost if you have them made at walgreens/cvs/etc). Then you get fingerprint cards done - luckily I work with some LEO and they took mine on the cards. Otherwise it's an extra trip in to the CLEO office for yours. Then you mail everything in - and wait a Year (more or less).

 

Trust: Skip the crap, go straight to mail everything in (or if e-file comes up then e-file). Wait a year (or if e-file comes back up and isn't overly congested, 2-6 months)

 

Finally, a trust can have multiple trustees who if the trust is prepared properly can be in posession of the device since it's owned by the trust.

 

Still have to wait and pay as you transfer the items to the trust. It gives peace of mind knowing your family isn't going to get in trouble by being in posession of an NFA item (even having access to the safe where they're stored could be considered posession, I think). Trust is definitely a good way to go. I would've, but I don't have anyone I would want to put on it with me, so just went the individual route.

How long ago did you file?

 

Reason I ask is I was told you MUST use the ATF fingerprint cards with THEIR origination code on it. Supposedly you cannot use fingerprint cards for local LE.

[Fourtyfive]

How long ago did you file?

 

Reason I ask is I was told you MUST use the ATF fingerprint cards with THEIR origination code on it. Supposedly you cannot use fingerprint cards for local LE.

 

My thoughts too , they have to have the Martinsburg stamp on them.

[cj0e]

How long ago did you file?

 

Reason I ask is I was told you MUST use the ATF fingerprint cards with THEIR origination code on it. Supposedly you cannot use fingerprint cards for local LE.

 

Oof, I think it was late April. Haven't heard anything, Guess I'll be making a phone call on my lunch break tomorrow.

[JeffL]

This is how I am attaching it.

http://manticorearms.com/Triangle-Stock-MA-5100.htm

$105 for the stock and $55 for the hinge. The makers modeled after an actual Krink they had in their possession. And although it is not identical it definitely does it justice. And because it will be on a trust, with my wife, it can be tossed in the truck for her without me being there.

 

 

 

Alright then. Probably going to have to buy one of those soon.

[LawEnforcementSalesTN]

Local prints are ok as long as they're the BLUE on white cards - they will not accept the red on white. 

 

You DO need to have the Martinsburg ORI on them

 

WVATF0800

ATF - NFA BRANCH

MARTINSBURG, WV

 

I also tell folks to be sure the person taking the print signs the prints and their agency (My Local PD/Address) is on the address/title line

 

then all your normal stuff needs to be filled in ..

 

SSN

Sex

Race

Hgt

Wgt

Eyes

Hair

DOB

POB - place of birth

 

 

My paper mailed forms are dropping tremendously.... I'd highly expect the transfer times will be close to the same unless they split the examiners back off again and put them on efile.  In the beginning, they split half their staff and put them on the efiled forms... well this was great for the folks starting to efile b/c they went to the front of the line ... the paper filed folks got the short end of the stick as resources that were cutting through the mix got split.

 

Right at the end when things went down, my efiles were 4.5, almost 5 months... my paper is dropping now and should in the 7 month range very soon.

 

Don't get me wrong, efile is great and I still prefer using it simply b/c of the ease and it's nice to see your filings actually made it in the system... just warning there's a lot of folks I know who are holding off until the eform 4s come back so I think we're probably going to get another surge when it starts back .... these folks are just a big balloon... you squeeze them on one end, the other is going to pay for it somehow ... but personally I think the guys and gals at the ATF are doing a great job!!  I try to commend them every chance I get b/c I know many do nothing but complain.

 

 

As far as trusts, regardless if they make you print or get signoff, they still will be very valuable for what many have touched on here... you can have beneficieries that can "enjoy" the items in the trust same as the trustee/s can.  When set up properly the skipping of the probate BS for your family when you die is another valuable benefit. 

Edited July 31, 2014 by LawEnforcementSalesTN

[btq96r]

So when e-file is working and is not overloaded, are approvals typically quicker?

 

According to this trend graph, yeah, e-file is much quicker.  It might not be purely scientific, but I think the sample side and randomness of it is good enough.  I tend to ignore the lightning fast e-file approvals, those are probably user input errors.

 

http://www.nfatracker.com/TrendGraph.aspx

[John Wells]

The other benefit of having your NFA, or any guns for that matter in a trust, is that they transfer to your heirs outside of your probate estate.  Anything that goes through the probate court may be public record depending on how your other estate planning documents are set up.  This and the flexibility of people that are in possession of your NFA items are the only reasons I would transfer anything that I owned as an individual into a trust.  You still have to pay the tax and wait for the stamp to come back, but at least you're in possession of your items the whole time.

[Capbyrd]

John is stand up!!!

[Dolomite_supafly]

John is stand up!!!

That he is.

[TrickyNicky]

I didn't want to start my own thread, but I just wanted to give a shout out to John Wells at http://nashvilleguntrustlawyer.com for getting me all setup yesterday. It was really a breeze to get going and John was very patient while answering all my questions in such a fashion as I felt I understood the information he was giving me. In other words, he translates legalese into dummy talk at no additional charge. The whole thing took about 45 minutes including a nice chat about guns and local ranges. If you're planning on doing a mix of buying and building NFA items, a trust really does make sense, plus later on down the line I can include all my non NFA items into the trust if I want to keep them separate from my main estate for any reason. Not really any point in that now, but it may be useful in the future.

Anyway, highly, highly recommend John Wells if your looking to get this setup. Thanks again John, hope to see ya at the range one of these days.

[Guest theconstitutionrocks]

Or...(wishfull thinking)...we could get enough politicians in office that would simply repeal the NFA (maybe I'll try the lottery instead, might have better odds)

[TrickyNicky]

Or...(wishfull thinking)...we could get enough politicians in office that would simply repeal the NFA (maybe I'll try the lottery instead, might have better odds)

That would be nice, but I think odds are better that we'll both hit the jackpot concurrently, and since I'm not buying any tickets, that would be quite a trick, even for TrickyNicky ;)

So aside from that,a trust is a good option.