Need some thoughts on the matter

[towerclimber37]

I was going to suggest the Pa-63...that's my daily when I know I'm going to be working on the ground all day, like today. heck, I was working and forgot to take it off...realized it at the end of the day...go figure.

you might want to check cdnn...I saw some in there a while back...but they can be found for around 185 out the door...and you can buy 500 rounds of ammo for 87 bucks, from ammotogo.com

I would also throw out there, the keltec 9mm. Keltec makes great pistols...they're plastic, but they are a hardy weapon that works and is accurate.

[Buzz]

My vote would be for a .38 or .357 revolver. Can't be beat for reliability. Small enough to conceal. One of the easiest for a new shooter to master.

Lots of options within that group. I really favor the 3" models. Ruger SP101s are tanks. On the heavy side for carrying 18 hours a day, but will eat as many .357 loads as you care to put through it.

Smith model 60s are a good choice also. I love the 3" model, but actually own a 2".

[Shima]

I have both a S&W J Frame 38 revolver and a Bersa 380. I like both, but I carry the revolver because of the size. If I had a hard on to carry a semiauto, I would carry the Bersa. The ammo is more costly. Maybe the 9mm Bersa would be a good choice for him.

[JeffsSig]

I would ask him to wait and save a few more dollars.....

That would give him some more to pick from.

[Guest coldblackwind]

I don't think its a matter of saving, he's got money, and he's not afraid to blow money ($13000 '87 jeep wrangler, built a brand new $250,000 house, etc, etc) I think he just doesn't have a feel for the cost of firearms. They are more of a "if its not for deer hunting, why would I look at it?" bunch of people, which means they have mainly shotguns, and rifles, handguns are a whole different monster.

[Guest mikedwood]

If money isn't really and issue I'll chime in for a G19. Pretty good, the streets are practically littered with them. You get 2 mags and such with it. Mags are plentyful and cheap up to 33 rounds even.

The main thing I like about the G19 is any gunstore you go to has all kinds of mags, holsters and about anything you might need for it.

Are Glocks the best? I dunno. But it is nice if you need something for your gun to just walk in and get it, espessially for a new shooter.

Plus 9mm atm is about as cheap as ammo gets save for a .22.

You could probably find a used one around $350 to $400 without much trouble.

I'd say a J-frame as well but .38 ammo is somewhat higher.

I hope ammo goes down as copper and lead have recently.

[jay1313g]

+1 for the Kel Tec P11

It is thin enough to conceal comfortably and 9mm will get the job done.

[Guest jdavis]

xd 40 subcompact i would reccomend it to anyone great guns not very far from his price range, i have two i carry one and im racking the rounds up on another one, i have had the old one for about two or three years and put about 4 or 5 thousand rounds through it without a flaw, i have put it through heck and it always asks for more,although i carry the new one i would still carry the old one and never doubt it.

[DaveTN]

I don't think its a matter of saving, he's got money, and he's not afraid to blow money ($13000 '87 jeep wrangler, built a brand new $250,000 house, etc, etc) I think he just doesn't have a feel for the cost of firearms. They are more of a "if its not for deer hunting, why would I look at it?" bunch of people, which means they have mainly shotguns, and rifles, handguns are a whole different monster.

Then you need to educate him.

Selecting a firearm or a carry round based on price is simply stupid.

If he loses his life or the life of a loved one over the price of a gun it really wasn’t such a good deal was it?

Has he gone through your Dads guns to see what he likes? Is your Dad pointing him towards a $300 .380 POS?

$300 might buy you an S&W J-frame if you know someone; but it won’t on an internet forum. Most of the other stuff at $300 is junk; and the .380 is absolutely useless for a carry round. (Sorry .380 guys but that’s just fact )

$500 puts him in a range with a whole bunch of good options. If he has a quarter million dollar house I doubt a couple of hundred for life insurance will break him.

Sorry if I sound blunt about this but this forum is for passing along good information. I have seen or investigated the aftermath of a lot of shootings. Bottom feeder guns are not a good choice for carry. They are marketed to people that are buying their first gun and don’t know anything or to people that want a gun to throw in the drawer at home and will probably never use it. However, if you shoot them regularly the chance that they would fail at the time you need them is slim.

Ammo is critical. Yes, a .380 in your pocket is better than a .45 at home. If that sounds like an intelligent statement to you; go with the .380.

You need to carry the ammo you would need for the threat that you think you may encounter. I personally don’t think I will be using deadly force unless I have encountered a situation where the bad guy is armed. Your chances of surviving a fire fight with a .380 are pretty slim.

[strickj]

Can you provide some documentation to prove that the 380 is a bad round?

I'm sorry but your whole statement above reeks of bs!

all 300 dollar guns being a pos=bs

all cheap defensive rounds being bad=bs

.380 not providing stopping=bs

Edited October 19, 2008 by strickj

[DaveTN]

Can you provide some documentation to prove that the 380 is a bad round?

You mean other than responding to a shooting and having the victim pick a .380 out of his side and hand it to me? Or seeing first hand a .380 that barely penetrated a winter coat? Or the well known fact that you need to use FMJ in a .380 because a hollow point may become clogged with clothing and won’t penetrate.

There is all kinds of documentation on the .380. Look it up before you start calling my comments BS. It won’t matter if you have your mind made up. The fact that you can buy little bitty guns that use it cheap doesn’t make it a defensive round.

I'm sorry but your whole statement above reeks of bs!

And yours reeks of having no experience other than posting on an internet forum.

It’s an opinion man… no need to attack me. People can decide what makes sense and what doesn’t.

[Oh Shoot]

Can you provide some documentation to prove that ...

The FBI ammo recommendation statement re .380 always stuck with me.

"Best round for .380: There isn't one. Use FMJ so that it might penetrate."

- OS

[Guest Rugerman]

I have to disagree that all $300 guns are junk. Those makarovs are reliable and I trust my life to 9x18mm. A good soviet can be had for well under $300. A Ruger P95 can be had for under $300 delivered and out the door from CDNN. I dare someone to try and break one. As far as .380, I own one but it's an old military gun not suited for everyday carry. I still would trust my life to it if it became necessary. To automatically dismiss any caliber is only shedding partial truths to its pros and cons. Every caliber has plusses and minuses and a role. I'd hate to be shot with anything as I assume most everyone would be. A Bersa .380 is a solid gun and can be had in this price range.

[strickj]

There have been people live after being shot with a 45.

I'm sorry but you used to being a cop does not make you an expert either.

380s are picky on what will work,but to say that all the defensive rounds are bunk based on some thug shooting where Winchester white box was used is silly.

There are also a whole slue of guns that meet the 300 dollar mark that are excellent firearms.Taurus,Sig trade ins,used Glocks,Charter revolvers,KelTecs.The list goes on.

And yours reeks of having no experience other than posting on an internet forum

So if thats all I got from an internet forum,then I guess Ive already learned more then you

[DaveTN]

There have been people live after being shot with a 45.

That’s true. Are you comparing a .380 to a .45ACP?

And at one time (I don’t know if this is still true) more people died in the U.S. by being shot with a .22 than any other caliber. Does that make it a good carry round?

I'm sorry but you used to being a cop does not make you an expert either.

I didn’t claim it did. You ask about documentation and I am giving you my real life experience. Some people on this forum ask for help because they don’t know. They look to people here that have experience; recommending a .380 for carry isn’t fair to them.

380s are picky on what will work,but to say that all the defensive rounds are bunk based on some thug shooting where Winchester white box was used is silly.

Isn’t WWB in .380 FMJ? If you think there is such a thing as a good defensive round in .380 why would WWB not be it?

There are also a whole slue of guns that meet the 300 dollar mark that are excellent firearms.Taurus,Sig trade ins,used Glocks,Charter revolvers,KelTecs.The list goes on.

That’s fine. My point was where does this $300 figure come from? He said his girlfriend’s brother could afford something good. He wants to get a handgun based on an area of town he will be working in. Apparently he feels there is a real threat.

So if thats all I got from an internet forum,then I guess Ive already learned more then you

Come on man, we are having a discussion here. Can we lay off the cheap shots? You are a moderator.

[strickj]

Look,I'm not knocking your opinion.I am knocking the .380 being called a bad round.I'm also saying that a 300 dollar gun is not a pos.

Come on man, we are having a discussion here. Can we lay off the cheap shots?

Wasn't a cheap shot.Just implying that maybe you need to do some more internet reading if you think 380s are bad.,since obviously thats all I have is internet experience

[Guest coldblackwind]

Actually Dave, the $300 figure came from thats what he told me he was willing to spend. Having the money, and being willing to spend it are two different things, and I have tried to educate him, and still am trying to educate him, this is why I pointed him toward the .38 as its the most reliable thing I could come up with in the price range he gave me. As for my him checking out my dads guns, he lives in NY, so while he's a good source of info, his collection won't be particularly useful for this. And no, he told him to stay away from the bersa actually.

As for there not being any good guns under $300, thats not true, especially when you get into revolvers. Police trade-in's you can pick up a .38 fairly reasonably, they had them at the nashville show a few months back for $200-225 (4" barrels, not snubnose), then you have things like the pa-63 which is quite a reliable, good shooting gun, and a lot of people have had good luck with the keltecs. My charter arms undercover was $300 brand new, and that was the stainless model, and I've never had a single problem with it thus far. Theres things to be found, the trick is finding one the size he wants, and the configuration he wants.

[Guest Rugerman]

And no, he told him to stay away from the bersa actually.

This is just my opinion, but I would take a bersa over a kel-tec all day long. I don't understand the reasoning for the above statement.

[Guest coldblackwind]

He asked if he pointed him toward the Bersa, and he didn't. Personally, I have no opinion on the Bersa, I've never fired one.

[Guest Rugerman]

He asked if he pointed him toward the Bersa, and he didn't. Personally, I have no opinion on the Bersa, I've never fired one.

They're not a good fit for my hand, something with the grips is just funky for me. Other than that they are good weapons for the money.

[ninja128]

with that kind of money the answer is much eaiser........sig 226 in 9mm......or do the simple G17 if he is going to throw it in the glove compartment. See, that was easy. He needs to find some new friends....like US..

[ninja128]

one thing we can all pretty much agree on.........you might start off with a 200 gun...but you'll end up with 1ok worth in the safe.....smiles. Just like tatoos and doritos, you can't just have ONE.

[Guest Guitarsnguns]

Revolvers are your best bet, but are hard to conceal. I have 3 "Commie" 9x18 mm autos that are built like tanks, cheaper than dirt, (usually around $200.00 or less) fit in my back pocket, have great safety mechanisms, and very dependable. E.German Makarov, Polish P-64, Hungarian P-63. There has been alot of debate about the effectiveness of the 9x18; however, FMJ's solve the penetration problem, and they are more powerful than a .380 (and yes, the DA trigger pull on all of those pistols are like hauling a cinder block tied to a string with your finger, but how hard is it to cock a hammer;)) I carry the p-63.