Need some thoughts on the matter

[Guest coldblackwind]

My girlfriends brother called me last night, apparently he's looking to get his concealed carry permit due to the area that he's presently working, and he's looking for a handgun. I don't think he really knows what he wants and thats where I'm running into problems. I know he wants something small (he was looking at a bersa thunder .380 when he called me), and he wants to stay around the $300 or less range. Its got to be reliable as he is going to carry it for self defense, but he also wants something he can afford to shoot, and he can take up on the hill with him or toss in the truck. I told him .38 snubnose might be the way to go, as he isn't very familiar with guns, and its unlikely to malfunction, plus you can pick them up easily in his price range, but he seems set on an automatic. The two I've come up with is the p-22 (for cost, and low price of ammo, plus they shoot great for the price, but you sacrifice most of your stopping power in a self defense situation), or the glock 26 (out of his prefferred price range, and a lot of people don't reccomend glocks for new shooters, but the ammo is reasonable, it has more power than the .22, and its small and reliable for carry). He's going to stop by and look at some of the stuff I have, and shoot a few, to get some idea of what hes looking for, but if anyone has a reccomendation, feel free to voice it. I'm starting to wish I hadn't sold my pa-63, seems that may have been just what the doctor ordered! By they way, this is going to be about a 50% carry gun, and 50% take it up on the hill gun (which means burning up ammo), thats why I mentioned .22's before anyone gets on me for .22 not packing enough punch for carry.

[EMTRN]

I think you are right about the snub .38, but everyone wants a cool semi-auto. The bersa seems like a good option, or you can usually pick up used S&W semi-autos for around $300.

[musicman]

I generally won't recommend a .22 for any defensive purpose not just because of dismal performance (which can't be overstated) but because of reliability. Even though the gun may be somewhat reliable, most .22 ammo is not only pretty cheap, but pretty cheaply made. The biggest problem is with incomplete speading of the primer mixture around the rim, leading to non-ignition if struck where there is no compound present.

Yes, CCI MinMags and some others have great reputations, but are still not generally up to centerfire standards, IMO.

I understand the statement about 50% carry, 50% plinking, but which 50% of the time is more valuable to him? Burning up ammo or defending his or others' lives in a potentially deadly situation?

Tell him to man up and take this responsibility seriously. (Not to be mean, but honest) Get a quality centerfire pistol of resonable caliber and performance, then learn how to use it.

[Guest Stinky]

My suggestion would also be a .38 snub, but if he's set on an auto, the Bersa wouldn't be the worst choice. Both my parents carry Bersa .380s. They've been reliable for them so far and I've found the pistols to be fairly decent and fun shooters.

To step up the ladder a notch, both Kel-Tec and Bersa make compact 9mm around that price point. I have no experience with either of those. In reality, the standard advice applies here: he needs to just go rent/borrow the pistols he's looking at and see what works for him.

[strickj]

You wont find a small gun thats fun to shoot,and easy to pocket carry.

Best bet would be buy one gun now,and one later.

A KelTec would be well suited for his price,and defensive purposes

[Guest HexHead]

.380 ammo is just too expensive to plink away with up on the hill. He should either go with a 9mm or your original suggestion for a .38.

[Guest canynracer]

He can get a Taurus 24/7 pro (compact) 9mm for his price range....or, a Smith and Wesson SW9VE... out of those two, I have the Smith, little bigger, but 3000 rounds and counting...no issues...yes, the trigger pull is harder than others. but I like it.

you can pick up either for under 400.00 bucks

he should go to a range and shoot several, or go to an "eat-N-Shoot" near you and talk shop with the folks there...

[Moped]

Hard to hid a 9mm in a pocket. Kel-Tec makes on that is probably small enough. Your original suggestion is spot on. .38 snub is the way to go.

I'd continue to push it till he makes a decision one way or another.

[cknight8]

i vote for a kel-tec P11...they can be had in the 300ish range, fire 9mm which is cheap to shoot and decent power (better than .22 or .380).

[molonlabetn]

Tell him to look used... perhaps a Sig P225. They have withstood the test of time, and are super-affordable. Not the smallest or the lightest, of course, but certainly reliable, and chambered in the more potent 9mm (which is actually cheaper to shoot than .380 and often .38spl).

[Punisher84]

Can't add much other than P-22s are not reliable. I had one and could not get it to function properly. Musicman hit the nail on the head about .22 ammo as well. The round might be deadly IF it bounces and all, but a larger center-fire round is going to have some impact behind it and a 9mm or .38 hollow point will do the trick.

Take him to a range, let him shoot, then asks him what his life is worth. Before anyone blasts me, I have a Kel-Tec to a Kimber. Mine is worth $275-1000, depending on the weather, but they all work reliably for me.

[Almond27]

Many good finds in the $300 price range you would be surprised what you can find

[Guest Traumaslave]

How much does anyone really shoot a subcompact carry pistol like the Kel-tecs. It's not like you go out and blow through 100 rounds a day bouncing tin cans around. I wouldn't worry too much about the cost of different/odd ammo. I like your original idea of the PA-63. For about $110 they are one hell of a buy and the ammo is reasonable. Take a look at surplus sites like SOG. They have many different pistols for less than $200 that make fine carries.

[Guest coldblackwind]

From the impression he gave me, his main concern is size. He has looked at kel-tecs, and the ruger lcp's, and I told him they are a pretty good little gun, but he's looking at the .380 and .32 size guns, and they are just plain expensive to shoot. The Bersa, I don't really know much about, and given my advice on the matter came from my father, who tends to get a bit opinionated on certain guns (he swears that desert eagles, and the keltec sub 2000's are the worst guns ever made), but the man has amassed a collection of guns beyond anyone I have ever met, and shot darn near everything on the market, so when he points me away from something I tend to listen. His response was they weren't that great, and the price on this particular one was about $100 high. Plus your back to the price of .380. From the sound of it, he wants a gun to plink on the hill with that he can also just toss in the truck, and not go broke on ammo. The carry sounds like somewhat of an afterthought, but i'm trying to steer him toward the most reliable thing I can in his price range. I have the distinct feeling that once he gets something, down the road he'll start picking up more, he has money, I think he's just got sticker shock when it comes to buying what amounts to his first gun of this type. I'll let him take a look at some of what I have as soon as he gets around to it, and let yall get a better idea of the size he's looking for. Thanks for all the input so far, but so far, it still looks like .38 snubby is winning the day for votes!

[molonlabetn]

If carry isn't the priority, then a Kel-Tec or LCP is not even close to the best option.

[musicman]

Doesn't Hero Gear have some crazy good deal on S&W Airweight jframes for like $400 or something?

[Guest tlondon]

I would recomend considering the Taurus mill PT111. Its a little to big to pocket carry but its a good gun. The recomendation on the PA-63 is also a pretty good choice for size and price. It takes a bulldozer to pull the trigger in double action so a lighter trigger spring would need to be replaced. Just my 2 cents

[Guest eyebedam]

acadamy has the Smiths SWVE & The Taurus/ 7 on sale this week for 299.99 this week. Both can be had in a 9 or .40 & the Taurus can even be had in .45 for that price. If he wants pocket either a kel tec or lcp .380 will both be in his price point & would fit the pocket nicely.

[Guest Rugerman]

I am going to give a huge endorsement to the Makarov pistols. Either a Russian, an East German, or ever one of the PA-63's. The latter can be had cheap cheap cheap, the ammo is getting cheap cheap cheap, and the first two are FINE guns. For the money, the Maks are hard to beat, cheaper to shoot than 380, and have more power. PLUS, they are usually single stacks that are thin and easy to conceal. A superb carry pistol that is easy to use, fun to shoot, and packs a punch for its size.

[Guest coldblackwind]

Yeah, too bad I just traded my pa-63 for an m44 mosin nagant and 30 bucks about 2 months ago, that would have been perfect for him. I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it, but my dad took it and ran right down a line of targets with it, so it was definintely me, not the gun. Ahh well, just have to keep an eye out for him I guess.

[Guest Rugerman]

Yeah, too bad I just traded my pa-63 for an m44 mosin nagant and 30 bucks about 2 months ago, that would have been perfect for him. I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it, but my dad took it and ran right down a line of targets with it, so it was definintely me, not the gun. Ahh well, just have to keep an eye out for him I guess.

I've had guns like that. I couldn't shoot them but others could, and vice versa. It's all about the fit, it took me a lot of time and a lot of guns to get it right, but I finally did with the CZ line of pistols and their clones.

If he could save a little longer, this is a great gun to carry.

[Guest slim]

The latest of my fav. pistols is the kel-tec pf-9, which is around $290. the only problem is the blue job sucks big-time. One parked is around $320. and they are the smallest,lightest 9mm there is.

I did get a belt clip for mine, so no holster is needed and can be worn hidden 100%

by clipping it on the inside of your underwear, you dont even know its there!

My $2.

[Guest Rugerman]

The latest of my fav. pistols is the kel-tec pf-9, which is around $290. the only problem is the blue job sucks big-time. One parked is around $320. and they are the smallest,lightest 9mm there is.

I did get a belt clip for mine, so no holster is needed and can be worn hidden 100%

by clipping it on the inside of your underwear, you dont even know its there!

My $2.

From when I was looking for a gun refinisher, most of the finishing companies I talked to had a TON of keltec business, hard chroming usually, to compensate for that finish issue.

[Mike.357]

apparently he's looking to get his concealed carry permit

The current length of time to get a HCP should allow him plenty of time to find what he wants. No need to feel like something has to be bought right now. He is going to be waiting a while to carry it anyway.

[Guest mn32768]

I generally won't recommend a .22 for any defensive purpose not just because of dismal performance (which can't be overstated) but because of reliability.

I agree 100%. I've got a Walther P22, and it's ridiculously picky about ammo. I've got zero failures with CCI MiniMags and Stingers, but with any other brand of ammo I get a failure to feed for every 20-30 shots. You can do severe damage with a P22 but I wouldn't bet my life on it going bang when I need it to.

Edited October 16, 2008 by mn32768