Apathy in the gun community

[Guest kingarmory]

Is it just me or has the internet greatly contributed to apathy in the gun community?  Between the in-fighting, misinformation, and general bitching in lieu of doing something constructive against the antis, I'm kinda losing hope with the "community".  Seems that between FB and other sites there has been a sharp increase in laziness over the last decade.  The Kenyan banned importation of cheap 5.45x39 ammo under fraudulent means (more details here http://www.kingarmory.com/7N6_ban.html) and besides bitching on the internet no one did much to contest it.  As a matter of fact I got berated by "gunnies" about going to Congress about it because they didn't want me to incite the wrath of the big bad gov't and would rather curl up and lick their nuts like a beaten dog.  The Kenyan banned importation of Saigas and besides bitching on the internet no one did much to contest it.  Where did the spine in the gun community go?  Has it been taken over by Fudds or is society as a whole that apathetic to what the gov't is doing to us?

 

Just takes the wind out of my sails lately, makes me worry about what will happen the next time they pass an AWB against our approval.  Will Americans stand up and hold the line or will they flock to Gunbroker to buy up "soon to be banned" crap at a premium then go to ARFCOM to bitch and compare notes about what this is going to do to "pre-ban" magazine prices?  This country is on the fast track to hell and all that most of the "gunnies" out there can seem to bother doing is giving the gov't a bad feedback rating online :(
 

[DaveTN]

You can now carry a gun in your car in Tennessee without a permit, Illinois now has carry permits and the Illinois Supreme Court has acknowledged carry outside the home as a right, DC gun ban is probably dead, all the gun control the feds have tried to pass has been shot down.

So I don’t think the gun community needs or deserves a dressing down or name calling. But that’s just my opinion.

[peejman]

What Dave said.  Great progress has been made in recent years and I think the ammo/gun bans are in retaliation for it.  Besides, bitching on the interwebs is what you do these days.  Getting off the couch and doing something is so...  70's.  ;)

[enfield]

I tweeted about it, so I've done my part.  Now where's my beer . . . .

[leroy]

I think folks need to fully understand that we have a federal government, specifically within the executive branch and with accomplices in the congress who are, in fact, at war with the citizenry... The war is a cold war (...thankfully...); but it's a war none the less...

 

The political class calling the shots today is for the most part a redux of the "Divine right of kings (...and queens...)" to tell us rabble what to do and how to do it; with a good dose of post civil war reconstruction thrown in.. Look at the pronouncements of Elenor Holmes Norton the other day... "... You (... citizens...) have no right to know everything that government does..."...

 

The left wing of the Democrat party and some complicit republicans believe that they are, in fact, the smartest people in the room and that they can do anything they are big enough to do... They are busy trying to turn this country into a land of serfs and slave masters; with them being the masters, of course; and folks need to understand that fully... That's why it's so important to vote these people out... If you don't beat them politically, you may be called on to beat them with the bayonet; and no one wants that...

 

I'm a relatively old geezer and ive never seen the political scene as hot as it is today... It's that way because of an imperious, overbearing, hateful, vindictive would be tyrant is sitting in the white house with a bunch of like-minded lieutenants; and if it's possible; the same sort of person is sitting in the majority leader's spot in the senate...  

 

The bottom line of this little epistle is as the elections get closer; these idiots will get worse and more high-handed... Remember to vote early and often; these sons of b****es will...

 

leroy

[Glenn]

Thanks Leroy. I can always count on someone on here to articulate my thoughts better than I can.

Glenn

[Guest summertime27]

I disagree with your post almost entirely.

 

People in the Gun community & the Firearm MFG's in this country have really stepped it up in the last couple of years.

In the recent last couple of years quite a few Firearm related companies have really stepped up to the plate with a large sums of money to support action against the Anti Gun movement in this country. Just because you don't see companies individually going against Big Brother by themselves doesn't mean they are not heavily involved. I feel that the most effective way for the firearm related business's to support the movement is thru monetary support of organizations like the NRA who lead a Unified attack against the Anti Gun Movement. Standing as one strong body is going to be much harder for the anti gun movement to squash than a bunch of smaller units that can be taken out much easier one by one. I know our companies contributions to organizations like the NRA has greatly increased over the last 2 years to help support the defense of all American's 2nd amendment rights. I feel that the money/donations that we give to the NRA are much better utilized in defense of these rights when pooled with other people/companies donations than if we were to use those same resources & go at it alone....

 

 Secondly, quite a few firearms related companies have put their money where their mouth is regarding new state implemented laws. Magpul, Remington, Berretta just to name a few. They have or are moving out of their home states at a huge financial impact to their companies in order to make a statement & follow thru with their threats to move if these states passed anti gun legislation. These states obviously thought they were bluffing, as much said so but it is now obvious that these companies were not bluffing at all & were/are committed to the fight.

 

Thirdly, Most individuals I personally know have also stepped up their giving to organizations in the last couple of years to support the organizations that pool these resources together to fight against against the groups that want our rights removed. Just like with companies, we as individuals are not large enough to stand alone. It is very important that this fight against our removing our rights is coordinated from a central point or it will become dis-organized & be squashed like a bug.

 

The fight for our rights will never be over, there will be calm's in the storm but never over & the last thing that the cause needs is disention in the ranks. We may loose a small battle here & there in this fight for our rights but we must keep fighting together.

[Guest kingarmory]

We are gaining "victories" in terms of carry legislation and stuff like that, I'm just concerned that it may be a bit of a two-pronged war.  Although at a state level we're making gains, the feds are becoming more anti-2A at an alarming rate and that tends to put the chokehold on the guns and ammo supply.  Much like the medical marijuana issue, when a state says you have the right to do something yet the feds trump that, it kinda marginalizes the state level victory.  Just seems that this fixation on state-level gains while more or less letting the feds get away with overstepping may be us basically walking into an ambush.

[Oh Shoot]

We are gaining "victories" in terms of carry legislation and stuff like that, I'm just concerned that it may be a bit of a two-pronged war.  Although at a state level we're making gains, the feds are becoming more anti-2A at an alarming rate and that tends to put the chokehold on the guns and ammo supply.  Much like the medical marijuana issue, when a state says you have the right to do something yet the feds trump that, it kinda marginalizes the state level victory.  Just seems that this fixation on state-level gains while more or less letting the feds get away with overstepping may be us basically walking into an ambush.

 

I definitely see both sides and agree that as with many issues, the US is a study in contrasts. While some states loosen firearm freedom, some go the other extreme.

 

Federal court rulings, sans finalizing by SCOTUS, are almost all ephemeral, and even SCOTUS decisions are as narrow as possible. Hence why Heller wasn't applied to the states, and even in McDonald, which was, there were no parameters incorporated -- states can still apply draconian measures regarding licensing to such an extent that there is almost still a de facto ban on ownership for the average person. Not to mention banning of types of firearms, regulating mag capacity, and etc.

 

As far as the "bearing" side of the equation, McDonald didn't address it, though it could have. It will probably come down to interpretation of the "militia" part of 2A. McDonald ruling agreed that ownership is an individual right whichever way the "militia" part may be interpreted, but the individual right to "bear" might swing the other way, being seen as only relevant to being part of a militia action. The original National Firearm Act has had challenges that have been argued both ways on that, for example. Who knows.

 

And though I'm hopefully wrong, I can only see SCOTUS  leaning if not bending over backwards to limit firearms rights over the next 25 or more years as liberal judges replace the marginally conservative ones on there now. It is instructive to remember that both Heller and McDonald squeaked by 5 to 4.

 

- OS

Edited July 29, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[Glock30]

I think folks need to fully understand that we have a federal government, specifically within the executive branch and with accomplices in the congress who are, in fact, at war with the citizenry... The war is a cold war (...thankfully...); but it's a war none the less...

 

The political class calling the shots today is for the most part a redux of the "Divine right of kings (...and queens...)" to tell us rabble what to do and how to do it; with a good dose of post civil war reconstruction thrown in.. Look at the pronouncements of Elenor Holmes Norton the other day... "... You (... citizens...) have no right to know everything that government does..."...

 

The left wing of the Democrat party and some complicit republicans believe that they are, in fact, the smartest people in the room and that they can do anything they are big enough to do... They are busy trying to turn this country into a land of serfs and slave masters; with them being the masters, of course; and folks need to understand that fully... That's why it's so important to vote these people out... If you don't beat them politically, you may be called on to beat them with the bayonet; and no one wants that...

 

I'm a relatively old geezer and ive never seen the political scene as hot as it is today... It's that way because of an imperious, overbearing, hateful, vindictive would be tyrant is sitting in the white house with a bunch of like-minded lieutenants; and if it's possible; the same sort of person is sitting in the majority leader's spot in the senate...  

 

The bottom line of this little epistle is as the elections get closer; these idiots will get worse and more high-handed... Remember to vote early and often; these sons of b****es will...

 

leroy

I have read many of your posts and enjoyed them, but above is one of the most spot-on things I've ever read on TGO. And leroy is eloquent as ever... :)

[mikegideon]

I have read many of your posts and enjoyed them, but above is one of the most spot-on things I've ever read on TGO. And leroy is eloquent as ever... :)

 

Yep. Leroy for president! :)

[leroy]

Thanks to Glock and mike for the kind words... To pharaphrase that great polititian "Pappy" Minolaeous O'Daniel; "...In the next "Pappy O'Daniel administration, these great thinkers here on TGO will be my "brain trust"...!

 

Thanks to all... 

leroy

[mikegideon]

I reckon we won't be banning any guns.

[RobertNashville]

Is it just me or has the internet greatly contributed to apathy in the gun community?  Between the in-fighting, misinformation, and general bitching in lieu of doing something constructive against the antis, I'm kinda losing hope with the "community".  Seems that between FB and other sites there has been a sharp increase in laziness over the last decade.  The Kenyan banned importation of cheap 5.45x39 ammo under fraudulent means (more details here http://www.kingarmory.com/7N6_ban.html) and besides bitching on the internet no one did much to contest it.  As a matter of fact I got berated by "gunnies" about going to Congress about it because they didn't want me to incite the wrath of the big bad gov't and would rather curl up and lick their nuts like a beaten dog.  The Kenyan banned importation of Saigas and besides bitching on the internet no one did much to contest it.  Where did the spine in the gun community go?  Has it been taken over by Fudds or is society as a whole that apathetic to what the gov't is doing to us?

 

Just takes the wind out of my sails lately, makes me worry about what will happen the next time they pass an AWB against our approval.  Will Americans stand up and hold the line or will they flock to Gunbroker to buy up "soon to be banned" crap at a premium then go to ARFCOM to bitch and compare notes about what this is going to do to "pre-ban" magazine prices?  This country is on the fast track to hell and all that most of the "gunnies" out there can seem to bother doing is giving the gov't a bad feedback rating online :(
 

I contribute time and money to pro-firearm organizations...I VOTE...I have gone to DC more than once and my local state rep, senator as well as my U.S. Rep hear from me regularly (they even call me back sometimes)...unless I become independently wealthy and no longer need to work a job I doubt that I can do much more.

 

So....my question to you is what exactly do you think folks should be doing?

As has been stated already, I think we've see some significant gains both nationally and in TN. That said, I'm as tired of the incrementalism we see from the current worthless Republican establishment in TN as anyone and the stuff we've gotten out of Haslam and company since he took office has been pretty pathetic but at least we are moving in the right direction and I have no reason to think we won't continue to do so.

Edited July 29, 2014 by RobertNashville

[Guest kingarmory]

I think more folks need to be out doing exactly what you're doing.  Just seems that the trend has been moving towards people bitching online and less people calling their reps directly, going to their offices, and protesting.  Seems that the percentage of folks who will get off their ass and do something productive has dropped substantially in recent years.  I know that 5 years of Kenyapocalypse has certainly disheartened the masses, but we need to make sure we keep the heat on at a national level as well.  Otherwise we end up at a state's rights crossroads and that ended ugly last time

[DaveTN]

Otherwise we end up at a state's rights crossroads and that ended ugly last time

It’s why we won’t end up there and why the states will be calling the shots on carry outside the home.

[TGO David]

I think more folks need to be out doing exactly what you're doing.  Just seems that the trend has been moving towards people bitching online and less people calling their reps directly, going to their offices, and protesting.  Seems that the percentage of folks who will get off their ass and do something productive has dropped substantially in recent years.  I know that 5 years of Kenyapocalypse has certainly disheartened the masses, but we need to make sure we keep the heat on at a national level as well.  Otherwise we end up at a state's rights crossroads and that ended ugly last time

 

I think the people you're maligning are, to a large degree, doing about the only thing they can with the resources at their disposal.  As has been pointed out, we have a society of tyrants occupying the government from top to bottom at both the Federal and State levels and that doesn't leave much for the voting public to work with.  It's rare to find elected representatives who are truly on the side of the Constitution and the public, and they seem to be outnumbered and outgunned by the opposition.

 

Visiting representatives in person or protesting outside their offices takes free time, and those of us on this side of the argument generally have very little of that to spare.  Case in point, the Occupy Wallstreet types weren't commuting to productive jobs during the day and returning to their hippie communes in public parks at night.  They were largely unemployed students and stay-at-home types (or homeless) and had nothing BUT free time on their hands.  Even the most industrious spider can be overwhelmed by an army of ants.

 

Besides, what's the return on investment for "us" to meet with elected officials who don't have a care in hell about the Constitution?  Or who are so badly on the take via backroom deals that they would sell their own mothers up river if it meant another four-years in public office to grow their fiefdoms?  I'm not going to rush to take time off from my job to meet with some bought and paid for bureaucrat who will smile, thank me for coming to see them, nod in feigned agreement as I voice my concerns, and then do precisely the opposite of what I've requested when it comes time for them to vote for my rights as an American citizen.

 

The problem is corruption and it's getting harder and harder to put honest people in office and keep them honest, and almost impossible to get rid of the traitors already in office.  The problem isn't disinterest on the part of gun owners.

 

Just my two-cents worth.

[btq96r]

I think more folks need to be out doing exactly what you're doing.  Just seems that the trend has been moving towards people bitching online and less people calling their reps directly, going to their offices, and protesting.  Seems that the percentage of folks who will get off their ass and do something productive has dropped substantially in recent years.

 

A lot of political noise has been moved to Facebook, blogs, forums and other places on the internet.  It's just the times a' changing.  Elected officials still look at who shows up to vote more than anything else.  A poll of likely voters is taken very seriously.  If you're ever asked to participate in one over the phone, that's a good way of having your opinion heard.

 

Communicating with an elected officials office is still the best way to convey the message you have.  They can ignore it, but if they get enough heat on an issue, they will consider their vote a lot more carefully.  Sometimes they know what is good politics in their districts by instinct and it's the way they would vote anyway, other times public opinion can sway their vote.  Also, consider sending a thank you letter to a member of congress when they take a vote that you agree with.  Too often, they only hear the negative side after voting and we risk letting that volume drown out the conversation.

 

As all this relates to gun rights...I can tell you with no doubt whatsoever, that the pro gun crowd is more adamant about this issue and represents a greater amount of single issue voters than those who want gun control.  Politicians who directly vote against gun rights are held to account for those votes- the usual suspects like CA, NY, MA and such excluded.  There are Democrats representing pro gun districts that would never dare put their name as a "Yea' on much gun control.  Background checks are about the only issue they are willing to consider.  Voters who consider gun rights a priority issue have made this so.  On the other side, gun control isn't as hot a priority...unless it's general bitching about things.

 

Our state legislature is a bit different.  Since there is a Republican trifecta and nobody really trusts a Democrat with pro gun issues, the powers that be aren't in any hurry to take on pro gun issues.  Hopefully the 2015 legislative session is a productive one.

Edited July 29, 2014 by btq96r

[leroy]

With Tennessee youv'e got an interesting political gun-related history... Tennessee at one time was a solid southern democrat pro - gun state (...like most all other southern states at the time...); with republicans only living east of the first bend of the Tennessee River over in east Tennessee... The political landscape looked exactly like it did during the civil war... Democrats ruled the old confederate enclaves and republicans were the minority...

 

The kennedys and mlk were assinated and the infamous gun control act of 1968 was passed... Definitely a gun rights limiting move...  A grandfatherly old white haired politico from Carthage, TN voted "yea" to that act who had served 6 terms in office (...over 30 years, from the "new deal" 30's thru the late 60's...) here in Tennessee, and was the darling of the state political class... His name: Albert Gore Sr...

 

He was voted out (...he had some other problems too...) in favor of a Republican by the name of Bill Brock of Chattanooga, TN ... The political class well remembers that landmark election... The State of Tennessee started turning red, and the rest is history...

 

Since that time, no politico from Tennessee except from the usual outposts of deep blue like inner city Memphis, Nashville, or Knoxville has openly espoused the gun control theme...  We can quibble about certain votes "enabling a potential gun control move" ALA the thing with Lamar and Corker on various confirmation votes; but you can't find a solid vote for gun control anywhere at either the federal or state level in other than safely deep blue districts...

 

leroy

[mikegideon]

Somebody in the US needs to start building the Saiga 12. Like anything else the Obama clown show does, there should be a way around it. That's a great design that needs to continue on in the US. Not fighting Obama is not really apathy. Sumbitch doesn't care about laws. How do you fight that?

[leroy]

Somebody in the US needs to start building the Saiga 12. Like anything else the Obama clown show does, there should be a way around it. That's a great design that needs to continue on in the US. Not fighting Obama is not really apathy. Sumbitch doesn't care about laws. How do you fight that?

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see this happen... Like mike said; there is a way around most all of this "import ban" stuff; and after the next presidential election; all this will go away anyway (...i think...)...

 

leroy

[mikegideon]

I wouldn't be surprised to see this happen... Like mike said; there is a way around most all of this "import ban" stuff; and after the next presidential election; all this will go away anyway (...i think...)...

 

leroy

 

If the Hildebeast wins, it could be worse. At least she's not as slimy as the Kenyan. She hates guns, and proud of it.

[nightrunner]

Sumbitch doesn't care about laws. How do you fight that?

Fight fire with fire. I dont particularly care about laws either.

[mikegideon]

Fight fire with fire. I dont particularly care about laws either.

 

Yeah... but do you get to snort cocaine off Beyonce's butt? :)

[jacob]

[quote name="mikegideon" post="1173266" timestamp="1406637914"]Somebody in the US needs to start building the Saiga 12. Like anything else the Obama clown show does, there should be a way around it. That's a great design that needs to continue on in the US. Not fighting Obama is not really apathy. Sumbitch doesn't care about laws. How do you fight that?[/quote] Jim Fuller @ Rifle Dynamics recently talked about his company working in concert with other American companies to replicate the Kalashnikov design to make the AK platform the new American gun...with the machining tech being what it is these days I dont see that comment of yours being too far from becoming reality...