Recoil Comparison Question

[mhl6493]

I recently bought a Smith and Wesson 442.  I've taken it to the range a couple of times now, with the same experience each time -- with standard, plain old Federal .38 special rounds, it literally hurts me to shoot it.  Seriously.  The web of my hand between my thumb and index finger is in pain after 1 shot -- won't even say what it feels like after a whole cylinder full.  

 

I had heard that the airweight snubbies were "snappy," but I wasn't expecting the pain.  I have shot a Ruger LCP, Smith and Wesson 640, Springfield XDs .45, and a Ruger GP100.  I can feel the recoil on some of them pretty significantly, but none of them hurt to shoot.  Recoil I can handle -- pain I don't want.

 

I'm actually considering trading the 442 in on something else -- maybe a "pocket 9" of some sort.  I'm wondering, how does the felt recoil of the 442 compare to, say, a Ruger LC9?  I know recoil can be a subjective thing and is hard to quantify, but I was hoping to get some ideas from others' experience.  Thanks!

[tnhawk]

I can't speak about the Ruger LC9 but I've got a 442 as well as a LCP.  I shot several boxes of +P in the 442 and wasn't satified with the results.  It can do what I need at close range but isn't a gun that I care to shoot often.  I'd prefer to shoot my EMP 40, XD40sc, G27, P938 or LCP.  I picked a 442 for it's light weight and small size, but the +P round and short sight radius prevent it being carried more often.

[mhl6493]

I can't speak about the Ruger LC9 but I've got a 442 as well as a LCP.  I shot several boxes of +P in the 442 and wasn't satified with the results.  It can do what I need at close range but isn't a gun that I care to shoot often.  I'd prefer to shoot my EMP 40, XD40sc, G27, P938 or LCP.  I picked a 442 for it's light weight and small size, but the +P round and short sight radius prevent it being carried more often.

 

Yep, the light weight was my primary reason for getting it as well.  I might try some different grips on the 442 -- maybe something that completely covers the metal backstrap.  I think that's a big part of the problem.  But with a bigger grip, it might have an impact on pocket carry.  Always a trade off isn't it...

[tnhawk]

I'm thinking of using some regular .38 rounds for practice.  This pistol still has a use to me, just not as as a primary carry.  I'd rather shoot my .44 mag than this pistol with a +P.

[DMark]

I have carried a bobbed hammer Model 37 Airweight as my BUG for longer than I can recall (Starting to get those senior moments).

 

So I understand your "pain."

 

A light J Frame requires that you get the web of the hand as high up on the backstrap as possible to manage the recoil.  Its one of the reason I carry a Model 37 and not a 442 or 642.  With the 37 my grip is so high that the web of my hand rolls over the top of the backstrap (thus the reason for the bobbed hammer).  The higher backstrap of the 442 or 642 won't allow that and I have found those J Frames to be beyond snappy 

 

As the delightful Alicia Keyes is about to find out......

 

 

 

 

 

[Patton]

I have not shot a LC9 but I have heard they have a lot more recoil than my Shield. The only two smaller autos that I have shot that have more recoil than a airweight may be a Kahr cw45 or a XDS 45. Maybe a glock 27 but maybe not.

[mhl6493]

I have not shot a LC9 but I have heard they have a lot more recoil than my Shield. The only two smaller autos that I have shot that have more recoil than a airweight may be a Kahr cw45 or a XDS 45. Maybe a glock 27 but maybe not.

 

I love my XDs 45.  No doubt about it, it's a 45, and I feel it.  But it doesn't hurt me like the 442 does.  I mean, it is physically painful...

[Patton]

I love my XDs 45. No doubt about it, it's a 45, and I feel it. But it doesn't hurt me like the 442 does. I mean, it is physically painful...

The 442 is not a range gun. Why don't you reload and make you some powderpuff loads?

[DaveTN]

Always a trade off isn't it...

Yes it is.... its application driven that’s why they make these guns. They aren’t range or target guns; they are belly guns. Get you a 4” 686 that is probably the most popular home defense revolver made and also have fun at the range.

I’m not taking anything away from the J-frames; I love them. But all things are application driven and the application for a J-frame is when you won’t care about the noise and probably won’t feel the recoil.

Seriously, a 15 oz. 9mm won’t be any better. You already had a J-frame, quit wasting your gun money and step up a notch to a target gun.

[mhl6493]

The 442 is not a range gun. Why don't you reload and make you some powderpuff loads?

 

I know very little about firearms, and I know less about reloading.  :D  And to be honest, I don't really want to know.  It might save me some money (and maybe some pain), but I just don't want to put the time into it.  At least not at this stage of things.  Maybe down the road...

[mhl6493]

Yes it is.... its application driven that’s why they make these guns. They aren’t range or target guns; they are belly guns. Get you a 4” 686 that is probably the most popular home defense revolver made and also have fun at the range.

I’m not taking anything away from the J-frames; I love them. But all things are application driven and the application for a J-frame is when you won’t care about the noise and probably won’t feel the recoil.

Seriously, a 15 oz. 9mm won’t be any better. You already had a J-frame, quit wasting your gun money and step up a notch to a target gun.

 

Honestly, the 442 was an impulse purchase.  At the time I was trying to ankle carry my all-steel 640 (Galco Ankle Glove).  I could do it for about 3 days, and then my ankle would just start killing me.  So, I thought I needed something lighter.  Thus, the 442.  Since then, though, I've pretty much given up on ankle carry except on very, very rare occasions.  So the application I got the 442 primarily for isn't a need anymore.  I tried pocket carrying it some, since my LCP has been "down and out" lately.  That works OK, and I could continue to do that when I can't pull off the XDs 45.  But honestly, I like the LCP better than the 442.  So, my dilemma... Oh, and I have a Ruger GP100 for target fun too  :D

[A.J. Holst]

Practice enough to be proficient and comfortable at 0 - 5 feet; as DaveTN states a lightweight compact is for bad breath distances, not stand and deliver. My compacts are not lightweights (SP101 and MK9) but I don't ankle carry and willing to hump the extra weight with good belt and holster, either AIWB or back pocket / coat pocket carry.

[deerslayer]

I turned my S&W 442 into a Kahr CM9.  It was a vast improvement--easier to conceal, easier to shoot, more accurate, less recoil, 2 additional rounds, and slightly more powerful.  In my book, the 2" j-frame is obsolete. 

[DMark]

..... In my book, the 2" j-frame is obsolete. 

 

:stunned:

[mikegideon]

I have a 637 and it kicks like a mule. My girlfriend has the hammerless version, and doesn't hate shooting hers as much as i do mine. She does use reduced recoil loads. I tried a Hogue grip on mine. It makes the gun lots more pleasant to shoot, but ruins it for carry. Currently, it's on the girlfriend's kitchen J frame, a Lady Smith. She doesn't carry that one.

[runco]

Call me a wuss, but I am not a wheel man.  I Shot a friends S&W 44 mag when I was 17, and other than the wow, it was painful.  All revolvers to me are the same, nothing absorbs the recoil but your hand.  Now with semis, at least there is a spring, the moving of the slide, etc. that absorbs the recoil.  How much as a %, I don't know, but 10mm, 357Sig, & 40 cal in semis are very tame to some of the wheels that I shot over the years.  Yes, I am a wuss.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Runco

[Trekbike]

I'm going to throw out two grips that I've found to work on the J-frame and still make it just as easy to pocket carry but has controllable recoil.  

 

I ran across a set of these at a small gun shop for about half retail so I bought them.  http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_764629_-1_757998_757843_757837_ProductDisplayErrorView_N

 

I know you're saying, are you crazy putting wood grips on a J-frame... but don't knock it until you've tried the right set of grips.   I think what made it work for me was it filled the palm of my hand perfectly and didn't allow the gun to try and move in my hand.   I could shoot numerous rounds of +P loads with no problem.   I used those grips for several years.  The other nice thing was the grips didn't have any drag on drawing the gun out of a pocket.   

 

The current set of grips I've used for several years are these.   http://www.crimsontrace.com/products/manufacturer/smith-wesson/01-1680

 

I was listening to a podcast from Massad Ayoob several years ago talking about how much more shootable and accurate it was for him using these grips.   When Mas talks, I listen.    I found a new set on Ebay for much much less than retail and gave them a try.    I've been really impressed with these grips and will continue to use them indefinitely.  They are very small and slim but have a covered backstrap so it's still comfortable to shoot and I find myself to be more accurate and get off quicker shots with the laser.  I know some folks say lasers are a bunch of crap, but to each his own.   

 

[DaveTN]

I have a big ugly set of grips for a j-frame that distribute the recoil and make it easier to shoot.

 

 

[tnhawk]

I love my XDs 45.  No doubt about it, it's a 45, and I feel it.  But it doesn't hurt me like the 442 does.  I mean, it is physically painful...

I also don't care for the high trigger pull.

[mikegideon]

I have a big ugly set of grips for a j-frame that distribute the recoil and make it easier to shoot.

 

 

 

Those should work. That looks like an all steel gun. 

[Jonnin]

I recently bought a Smith and Wesson 442.  I've taken it to the range a couple of times now, with the same experience each time -- with standard, plain old Federal .38 special rounds, it literally hurts me to shoot it.  Seriously.  The web of my hand between my thumb and index finger is in pain after 1 shot -- won't even say what it feels like after a whole cylinder full.  

 

I had heard that the airweight snubbies were "snappy," but I wasn't expecting the pain.  I have shot a Ruger LCP, Smith and Wesson 640, Springfield XDs .45, and a Ruger GP100.  I can feel the recoil on some of them pretty significantly, but none of them hurt to shoot.  Recoil I can handle -- pain I don't want.

 

I'm actually considering trading the 442 in on something else -- maybe a "pocket 9" of some sort.  I'm wondering, how does the felt recoil of the 442 compare to, say, a Ruger LC9?  I know recoil can be a subjective thing and is hard to quantify, but I was hoping to get some ideas from others' experience.  Thanks!

 

the little 9s are also snappy.   Whether the will hurt you is subjective, no one can say, but they also have a sting.   Grip size and width is part of it ... some guns focus the entire recoil (remember that equal and opposite thing from physics??)   into a very small area.  The smaller the area, the more force on that small bit of skin.  So replacing the grips can be a huge help, if possible.  But if you put massive grips on it, you lose the nice easy to conceal factor somewhat.  

 

Here is my novel idea.  Why not shoot someone else's lc9 before you buy one?   I carry the sig 938 and my hand is stinging and ready to quit after a full box of 50.  I usually just practice with a couple of mags thru it and quit --- its not a range gun, after all, nor do I expect the little thing to be the ultimate zombie slayer so scenarios with 20 opponents are not too important to me with that pistol.

 

so you have a couple of choices.... replace the grips... handload some lighter ammo (the 38 S&W has done in plenty of victims, you can drop down a fair amount if you need to and still have a workable round) ....  replace the gun... 

 

I think, due to your trigger finger pain, you will need to replace the gun.  Are your hands kinda large?  The usual issue there is big hands get "trapped" and the trigger guard smacks you. 

[Trekbike]

I also don't care for the high trigger pull.

 

This made quite a bit of improvement on mine.  

 

https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid49.html

[tnhawk]

This made quite a bit of improvement on mine.  

 

https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid49.html

I'll be making this change on mine soon!

[Trekbike]

I'll be making this change on mine soon!

 

Just a suggestion but I found this tool made the job much easier.

 

http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/199200/wheeler-engineering-screwdriver-bit-s-and-w-rebound-slide-spring

[mhl6493]

Well, I went down to my lgs today, and I decided to go ahead and trade the 442. But I didn't go with a "pocket 9" after all. My pocket carry options, between the XDs 45 and my LCP (which is on its way back into the rotation soon, I'm sure), are pretty well covered. However, I did still want a 9mm - didn't have one in my collection, and that gaping hole needed to be filled. So I actually went with a Glock 19 Gen 4. My first Glock. I actually expected it to not feel good in my hand, but it did. So for what it's worth, I bit.  And I still have a j-frame in my 640.  Best of both worlds...  :D