Malaya flight 17

[Mike.357]

if a US citizen was on the plane then I am sorry, but we still have no business getting involved.    Does it make it more heinous if a US citizen was on it?

 

Why would the rebels shoot it down anyway?  To what end does it benefit them?

 

The USA needs to stop being the world's police,  end of that story.  Now is the time to stop!

 

And while we are on the subject,  please stop saying " an American"  Last time I took geography anyone basically in the Western Hemisphere is an American.

The hated illegal aliens from Mexico are American's.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Mike.357

[battleop]

Their radar probably does not specify the type of aircraft but just an aircraft at 33, 000 feet so shoot it down and we will see what it is plus they probably were not in communications with the aircraft because they most likely would not be monitoring civilian radio transmissions and when they tried to talk to the air craft and they did not respond it must be the enemy. One of those Shoot first and ask questions later deals!!!!!!  But that also depends on if it was actually shot down or blown up in the air with a  bomb on the plane.............jmho

They probably thought no airline was stupid enough to fly over a war zone.

[Oh Shoot]

....

Why would the rebels shoot it down anyway?  To what end does it benefit them?

 

Seems clear they fricked up. Heard the transmission between the Separatist and the Russian major?  Was "oh sheet!". Or maybe between two "Separatist" guys, it's a bit muddled as the Russians have regular army "advisers" helping them.

 

There was also a tweet from somebody in the ranks right after it was hit, crowing that they had scored on a "Ukrainian cargo plane". Tweet deleted soon as the "oopsie" was discovered.

 

- OS

Edited July 18, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[battleop]

Why would the rebels shoot it down anyway?  To what end does it benefit them?

They probably had no idea it was civilian. After all who in the hell flys a civilian plane just 1k feet above the no fly zone that's over an area that is at war?

[Mike.357]

Seems clear they fricked up. Heard the transmission between the Separatist and the Russian major?  Was "oh sheet!". Or maybe between two "Separatist" guys, it's a bit muddled as the Russians have regular army "advisers" helping them.

 

There was also a tweet from somebody in the ranks right after it was hit, crowing that they had scored on a "Ukrainian cargo plane". Tweet deleted soon as the "oopsie" was discovered.

 

- OS

 

 

And like previously posted the good old USA shot down a plane once.  We expected to be forgiven.  Accidents happen.  Sadly a lot of people died this time as well as when the good old USA did it.  

 

How about don't fly a plane over the Ukraine?  That should be a slogan.

[Oh Shoot]

....

How about don't fly a plane over the Ukraine?  That should be a slogan.

 

Seems most airlines were already not doing it, but actually there was no "official" warnings by FAA or anybody else till after the thing was hit.

 

- OS

[Mike.357]

KPD has never issued a warning for folk to stay off MLK Blvd,  but somehow I know to stay away from that area. Especially when tensions run high, like at night.

 

Last time a Malaysian jetliner came up missing there was a lot of talk about avoiding certain carriers.  Seems that advice still rings true.

 

Curious too since apparently they have now warned about flying over the Ukraine,  What weight does the FAA carry internationally?

Edited July 18, 2014 by Mike.357

[Oh Shoot]

.....

 

Curious too since apparently they have now warned about flying over the Ukraine,  What weight does the FAA carry internationally?

 

Dunno. I guess if I were a pilot, I'd take it up with management before I lifted off the ground if that's the air route I were assigned. :)

 

- OS

Edited July 18, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[peejman]

Here's my conspiracy theory.  Russian special forces used Ukrainian equipment to shoot it down.  You can't shoot down an airliner with a shoulder fired missile, they fly much too high.   With that said, it was exceedingly stupid for a commercial flight to overfly that area.  I suspect those folks on board would have gladly paid for an extra hour's fuel and endured another hour in the plane to take the long way around. 

 

 

U.S. intelligence officials confirmed that Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 was downed by a surface-to-air missile near Ukraine's border with Russia on Thursday, but have yet to determine where that missile originated.

 

 

 

No US citizens on board. 

 

Among the passengers on the flight were 173 Dutch nationals, 44 Malaysians and 27 Australians and 12 Indonesians.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/07/18/mh17-crash-ukraine/12821271/

 

 

 

 

 

Curious too since apparently they have now warned about flying over the Ukraine,  What weight does the FAA carry internationally?

 

None.  I assume that aircraft was under EASA (FAA for the EU) regulation since it was flying out of Amsterdam.  If that aircraft ever flew into the US, then it would be under FAA regulation as well.  The FAA has an agreement with EASA that functionally says "whatever they say, we say" and vice versa.  I suspect the FAA could issue advisories to avoid overflying certain areas globally, but I don't think they can regulate it. 

Edited July 18, 2014 by peejman

[R_Bert]

Compounded tragedy--over 100 AIDS activists, researchers and health workers were on MH17 en route to International AIDS conference in Melbourne.

 

 per a friend of mine who is on the National Security Council......

[Oh Shoot]

Here's my conspiracy theory. Russian special forces used Ukrainian equipment to shoot it down. You can't shoot down an airliner with a shoulder fired missile, they fly much too high.

Oh, pretty much known it had to be a BUK missile system. Yes, Ukraine has them, but so do the Separatists, with regular Russian army trainers. They already shot down a couple of Ukrainian cargo planes a few days before with them. And the tweet and recorded phone call indicates they thought they had brought down another until the big "oops".
 

....
No US citizens on board. 
 
 
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/07/18/mh17-crash-ukraine/12821271/

 
Sounding like there may be 20 something Americans. Totals from that article are 42 short. We'll see. They've kept that part close to the vest so far somehow or other. Ukraine ministry adviser said 23 yesterday morning, no idea if he's right or how he knows.

 

Edit: just said they actually have only found 180 something of the 298 folks on board.

 

- OS

Edited July 18, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[Erik88]

Short of not flying over that area, why should we do anything about it?

 

I'm not saying we should or should not. But how would you feel if your son or wife was on the plane? Would you want the US to do anything?

 

 

I don't know what we really could do though. More scary sanctions? 

[Oh Shoot]

 per a friend of mine who is on the National Security Council......

 

Yeah, it was reported last night too. Some of the top folks in the field apparently. More's the pity.

 

- OS

Edited July 18, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[Sam1]

All I need to know now is... Has anyone contacted rolling stone magazine so they can update their list to reflect gun #6

[tnguy]

I'm not saying we should or should not. But how would you feel if your son or wife was on the plane? Would you want the US to do anything?

 

 

I don't know what we really could do though. More scary sanctions? 

 

"Something has to be done"? Worst justification for an action ever.

[peejman]

I've since been told that both the FAA and EASA issued "no fly" zones over the Crimean region several months ago, but the no fly zones didn't extend this far north and the plane was at an altitude that was considered "safe". 

 

http://en.ria.ru/world/20140718/191000727/FAA-Expands-No-Fly-Zone-for-US-Airlines-to-East-Ukraine.html

[Joseg]

What do you want us to do?

 

**** Note: my true inner grunt is going to come out with the following, if you find it offensive or whatever, grow a freaking pair. 

 

How about we stop running our mouths and mind are own damn business? To Start. If Ukraine is in NATO, then NATO needs to step to the plate and make it happen. Do we have to run to every country is in need? Hell no! We need to finish what we got going on strong, so we don't end up looking like idiots (Iraq and Afghanistan) and when I say finish, I mean finish strong and not say, "well we are leaving X day", leave because we accomplished the true goals, not the nation Building crap that is the current trend. And if you commit troops, take the damn gloves off and let them handle their business, stop getting in their way. Like the saying goes, "Hold they tail, while I fck this monkey." 

 

Now, back to the running of your mouth, like the POTUS has done, he needs to follow thru or not say anything. Remember the red line in Syria? How that work out for the US?Let's be honest, whomever he learn how to deal with Foreign Policy, sucks or slept thru the class, because they got their heads so far up their 4th point of Contact (that's the a$$ for you non Airborne types) that it's beyond funny. 

 

Next item, he's taking pointers from Bill Clinton and Desert Fox deployments to Kuwait as a show of force. That didn't work and just put strain on soldier's families when it was uncalled for. So he sends a company sized elements of 173rd to Poland (btw, more than enough paratroopers to cause some havoc on mother Russa troops and armor) and then a few more slice elements sprinkled here and there. Okay, now what? You know what happens when Joe sits around? They come up with crazy shit to do, that usually gets them in trouble (apart from pillaging the local female population, which paratroopers are known to do).

 

Does that sound like a few reasonable items to do? If not, I got plenty more options.. 

[gregintenn]

I'm not saying we should or should not. But how would you feel if your son or wife was on the plane? Would you want the US to do anything?

 

 

I don't know what we really could do though. More scary sanctions? 

No, I do not believe that would change my opinion.

[Oh Shoot]

... To Start. If Ukraine is in NATO, ...

 

It's not.

 

Because Russia has had the balls, backed up by natural gas and oil, to prevent it. And which is why you aren't seeing much of Europe making much noise about this whole shebang over there in general.

 

- OS

[Joseg]

It's not.

 

Because Russia has had the balls, backed up by natural gas and oil, to prevent it. And which is why you aren't seeing much of Europe making much noise about this whole shebang over there in general.

 

- OS

 

 

So why should we get involved? No damn reason. the Ukraine had a standing army with somewhat modern weapons, so man the fck up and take your own country back.. But then again, the separatist aren't just separatist, there's probably some Russians sprinkled here or there.. Either way Ukraine loses this one, w/o our help.. Russia cuts off gas and oil supplies and they are dead in the water.. 

[bersaguy]

Well, if you really give this any thought at all, the Separatists in the east do not have any military aircraft to use in the conflict so the Ukraine Military would have no reason to use any of their anti aircraft weapons which would eliminate them shooting the airliner down. So it now remains the fault of the Separatists who have shot down several aircraft using missiles supplied by Russia and trainers to teach them how to use them. So it is either Russia or the Separatists that shot it down and really could have been either considering how close it hit the ground so close to Russian border......................jmho