Letter to Wally World

[Guest canynracer]

Like I said, I agree with that...I TOTALLY agree with that..but, ever heard of divide and conquer?

[Im Neero]

I don't see how this situation fuels any fire. If anything, it helps our cause, because now the entire night shift at that Wal-Mart is aware that licensed individuals are allowed to carry a gun in that store.

There may be negative consequences at times, but in this case it seems that the consequences were far more helpful to our cause than harmful.

[Fallguy]

Not being argumentative here...I choose to conceal, and I disagree with carrying openly..but that is MY choice.

but I have seen this posted by folks before...I cannot find anywhere that shows this is why they did it that way...I mean it does make sense, but is there something out there that says this is why they did it?

I ask because of the states where you dont need a permit at all to Open carry...

I'm not sure if there is an article or anything I can point to to show this, but from all I have seen posted and read about those that where around and helped form current permit law....the reason Tungsten states is the reason the lack of concealment was left out of the law.

It's my understanding that some thought local sheriff's (who issued the permits before and may not have liked the fact the state was now going to do it) would arrest someone if their weapon became exposed.

Also Tungsten is right in that in some states you can be arrested for even just printing. Believe or not, TX is one of those. Although there is a campaign to allow OC in TX going on.

I was also wondering what other states that allow OC and CC, require a permit for both...are we the only ones?

Gold means you can OC without a permit.

Green you can OC with a permit.

Red no OC at all.

Others have some varying degree.

For more info you can visit Opencarry.org

Edited October 13, 2008 by Fallguy

[TGO David]

I don't see how this situation fuels any fire. If anything, it helps our cause, because now the entire night shift at that Wal-Mart is aware that licensed individuals are allowed to carry a gun in that store.

Yeah, because a guy walking around in a store at 2am with a gun on his hip sends a positive message to those people. The best activists are those who you never assume to be activists.

"You mean you carry a gun? I had no idea. You seem so ... normal. You mean regular citizens can get a carry permit? How hard is it to do?"

-vs-

"Yeah, Bob carries a damn gun everywhere he goes. Right on his hip like he's Wyatt Earp or something. It doesn't bother me personally but it scares the hell out of my wife and kids. I wish Tennessee would do something about regulating that stuff."

Which dialogue do you think has the more positive potential outcome?

[creeky]

There may be negative consequences at times, but in this case it seems that the consequences were far more helpful to our cause than harmful.

Until "anti" letters are written and a corporate policy is written, and legal signs are posted at all entrances.

"Anti's" (unfortunately) out number permit holders... the best way to help the "pro-gun" agenda is to be polite, respectful, and discuss the issue in a rational manner. (IMHO)

[Fallguy]

Yeah, because a guy walking around in a store at 2am with a gun on his hip sends a positive message to those people. The best activists are those who you never assume to be activists.

"You mean you carry a gun? I had no idea. You seem so ... normal. You mean regular citizens can get a carry permit? How hard is it to do?"

-vs-

"Yeah, Bob carries a damn gun everywhere he goes. Right on his hip like he's Wyatt Earp or something. It doesn't bother me personally but it scares the hell out of my wife and kids. I wish Tennessee would do something about regulating that stuff."

Which dialogue do you think has the more positive potential outcome?

But...can't the first conversation happen even if someone OCs (In fact it often does)

...and can't the second happen even if someone CC's? (Other than the part on his hip)

[TGO David]

But...can't the first conversation happen even if someone OCs (In fact it often does)

Sure, but that assumes that the observer has a positive impression of the person who is carrying the gun. Mars and I talked about this once in the past and perception is indeed reality. If you look like someone who should be carrying a gun, then you are less likely to cause panic.

I love to use Eddie (Molonlabetn) as an example of this. The guy is fit, dresses clean and carries an air of quiet professionalism. He open carries a lot but he looks like he's probably got a badge inside his wallet. If he drove a Crown Vic, he could probably get away with a bank heist and even get a cop to help him carry the loot to his car.

...and can't the second happen even if someone CC's? (Other than the part on his hip)

That assumes that the person concealing somehow lets it slip that he or she does, or lets the weapon be visible for some reason. And again, the impression the latter would make on the sheep depends largely on whether they look like a responsible member of society or if they look like some dreg who shouldn't even be trusted with a bottle opener.

[Fallguy]

....and you assume the opposite, right? Ergo our difference.

But I totally agree on Eddie.

[TGO David]

Yep, I'm a natural skeptic. Probably one of the biggest reasons I'd never intervene in what appeared to be an armed conflict between a thug and a businessman. It'd be my luck that the businessman was a drug dealer and the armed thug was an undercover narcotics officer.

Perception being reality could really bite you in the butt in a case like that.

[Im Neero]

Your negative consequences are all hypothetical. We know that there was the positive consequence of the entire night shift of the store being educated about the law and store policy, both of which help our cause.

If you want to make hypothetical harms, then there is no limit, but admit that they are just that.

[Fallguy]

Yep, I'm a natural skeptic. Probably one of the biggest reasons I'd never intervene in what appeared to be an armed conflict between a thug and a businessman. It'd be my luck that the businessman was a drug dealer and the armed thug was an undercover narcotics officer.

Perception being reality could really bite you in the butt in a case like that.

Funny thing is, I'm generally a cynic myself.

[Punisher84]

It will never cease to amaze me how divided gun owners truly are. I don't think anyone in this thread has agreed with another person fully.

Chew on this... If the standard was to OC, but we COULD conceal and Chipperi was reaching for the aforementioned Fruit loops and his shirt came up over his gun and this situation ensued, how many here would be screaming "Well if you just Open Carried like everyone else does, you wouldn't have had this issue! You concealed carriers just hurt the cause, because only criminals conceal guns."

You wanna bitch and moan about OC fine, but when was the last time your local gangbanger walked in with his Glock in a Galco. Does Joe Citizen know the difference? maybe not, but it might provoke some positive conversations instead of us running around like half-baked superheroes with our "ace in the hole".

I prefer concealed carry sure, but if you want to keep losing rights, you need look no further than our own sheeple amongst the sheepdogs.

[TGO David]

Your negative consequences are all hypothetical. We know that there was the positive consequence of the entire night shift of the store being educated about the law and store policy, both of which help our cause.

Your conclusion that this is indeed a positive outcome is pure assumption. As Creeky pointed out, you may now also have a store full of anti's who will mobilize against open carry or at least carry resentment about it with them into the voting booths down the road.

There are plenty of more favorable ways to educate the masses. Scaring the **** out of them isn't one of them.

[TGO David]

I prefer concealed carry sure, but if you want to keep losing rights, you need look no further than our own sheeple amongst the sheepdogs.

Pardon me if I feel a little slighted by that comment. Since when is discretion considered cowardice?

[Guest db99wj]

I OC'd Saturday night (midnight) on a diaper run to Walgreens on Summer and Perkins. I was tired, I didn't care if anyone saw or not. The three Mexicans, a stock guy, and a the cashier didn't care one bit. Course a clean shaven', shorter than most haircut kinda guy that walks with a purpose, straight to the diapers, then turning around going to the counter, I might have looked like a "the part". Don't know if I did or not, my boss calls me a cop everytime I get a fresh haircut. First time I OC'd out like that.

With that said, I do prefer to CC. Just because...that's what I prefer to do.

To be truthful, I don't like this area of town, it is just closer, I cross over the "border" which is Sam Cooper and it is not far, I still felt undergunned, I would rather have had a AR SBR over in this area!

[Punisher84]

Pardon me if I feel a little slighted by that comment. Since when is discretion considered cowardice?

Discretion is not cowardice by any means, my point is people that scream like it's just wrong to exercise a right because they don't agree with it. As usual I agree with alot you are saying. I just hate when people attack OC, just because it's something they don't do. It's no different than not voting against an Assault Weapons Ban just because they don't want an AR.

[Fallguy]

I don't recall the OP saying the Wal-Mart employee was scared.

Also have read many more "nothing happened" post when someone OC'd as opposed to "this soccer mom grabbed up her kids and ran away screaming" post.

[chipperi]

Geesh I didn't intend to start a full blown war of words on here I sometimes open carry because it is more comfortable, cooler without a cover shirt, convenient, oh and legal. So you think I should go out and get one of those HCP badges so people dismiss me as being a cop That aughta start a war of opinions.

[TGO David]

Geesh I didn't intend to start a full blown war of words on here I sometimes open carry because it is more comfortable, cooler without a cover shirt, convenient, oh and legal. So you think I should go out and get one of those HCP badges so people dismiss me as being a cop That aughta start a war of opinions.

The beauty of forums is that almost anything we post can turn into a discussion of amazing proportions.

[TripleDigitRide]

The beauty of forums is that almost anything we post can turn into a discussion of amazing proportions.

Yep! And as surprising as it may be, no one has been shot at one of the Meet & Shoot's. We just love to argue.

[TGO David]

Yep! And as surprising as it may be, no one has been shot at one of the Meet & Shoot's. We just love to argue.

Ooo... new event! Ten paces, turn and fire!

[Punisher84]

Ooo... new event! Ten paces, turn and fire!

HAHA! It's like a family, we love each other, we just like to fight once in awhile.

[Fallguy]

[Guest canynracer]

ummm........no thanks Fallguy...

I will be over here

[Fallguy]

If you can arrange it canynracer...I'm all for it...