Which AK?

[Guest 0down]

I have been thinking about an AK style rifle. I want a rifle that is reliable above all else. I know that all of the old soviet bloc countries have exported rifles of various qualities. So what out there is cheap and reliable? Anyone have experience with the Romanian WASRs? Anything to be avoided?

[saintsfanbrian]

I know the sights can be canted on the WASR's and that there is usually a little slop in the mag well. Just make sure that they mags fit and you should be okay from what I have heard. Still waiting to find some place to take mine to shoot it. Let me know if you know a place close by and we can make a trip out with mine before you buy yours.

[SkWaShDeM]

The WASR's are nice, just find a dealer with several in stock and handle them all, and pick the best one. Jiggle the mags and check the sights. I've seen a WASR jam exactly once in my life... it had somewhere between 2500 and 3000 rounds through it at the time, and the jam was a stove pipe from a bad primer we've decided. Funny sounding pop and a stove pipe. So we'll chalk that up to a bad round. That gun has about 6000 rounds through it now, as of the last time I talked to the guy who has it, and he said he hasn't had any additional problems, even though he wants to know how long it will go without maintenance, and has never cleaned or oiled it since the day he bought it.

[molonlabetn]

All of the WASRs which I have handled were rough and loose. Don't expect accuracy.

Saiga would be a better choice, or even cheaper, an SKS.

Arsenal & Tantal are some of the higher quality com-bloc AK importer/manufacturers... Century is the importer of many European rifles (including Romanian), and they have a reputation for questionable QC on many of their lines (FAL, HK91 clones, and the WASRs...)

[Guest macho999]

I like the Chinese variety.

[Smith]

I've got a Saiga that Red Stick is converting at the moment. A true Russian AK for 500? Can't beat that deal.

[bteague2]

What would be a price on a cheap AK? it doesn't have to be reliable i'm not going to ever have my life depend on it, i'd just like to get one before they try to ban them which sooner or later will happen

[Guest Greentimber]

WASRs are ****. For not much more you can get a Vector or for a bit more an Arsenal. Better yet, purchase a kit & have a reputable AK-smith build it to new condition.

[Guest Voodoo_1]

This is the one that I am currently considering.

It is made by Armory USA (Lancaster Consulting) and has a 1.6mm heavy duty stamped receiver. This is about as close as you can get to being a milled receiver AK. This AK is the middle of the road, price wise - $599.00

You can get a WASR for about $350.00. As mentioned above, the WASR can be hit or miss depending on quality. Some have canted sights, slop in the mag well from overmilling after importation, and excessive trigger slap, which can be cured by swapping to a Tapco G2 fire control.

Some of the other AK's mentioned are fine rifles but start going up in price to as much as $900.00 - $1000.00 depending on the make.

If you are getting an AK to complement your AR, the lower end models would do just fine. If this will be your primary semi-automatic rifle, I would definitely go higher end. Good luck with your search.

[molonlabetn]

...If you are getting an AK to complement your AR, the lower end models would do just fine. If this will be your primary semi-automatic rifle, I would definitely go higher end...

Excellent point.

You get what you pay for... but it's only necessary to pay for what you NEED (otherwise, get what you WANT)

[Guest 0down]

What makes a $1000 AK worth that much? Scarcity? Collectror value? Also, what is trigger slap?

[molonlabetn]

What makes a $1000 AK worth that much? Scarcity? Collectror value? Also, what is trigger slap?

That's a similar question as if one were to ask whether a $2000 AR is worth that much...

The answer is, it depends on what you are doing with it.

A $1000 AK from Vector or Arsenal has high quality imported parts mated carefully with American compliance parts, with superior fit and finish. Reliability will be better (though most AKs are very reliable, as it is), and more importantly, accuracy will be noticeably improved.

Also, the guns will be more durable... having milled receivers, or at least thick 1.6mm stamped units. They will also have tighter tolerances, resulting in less slop (hence the better accuracy and smoother actions).

If this is a gun which you will be using for a long time, don't want to need to upgrade it, and which will run 100% under any conditions with superb accuracy... spend the money.

Be prepared to wait for the arrival of a premium gun, regardless of type. They aren't necessarily 'scarce', by definition, but they aren't dime-a-dozen either.

Trigger-slap is a phenomenon relevant to Romanian/Century AK triggers with a single 'hook' acting inside the receiver which was not properly machined (poor design, not a mistake). Predominant in cheaper builds, this design allows the trigger to be jarred as it follows the the carrier returning to battery. You feel a bit of a jerk as the trigger tries to 'slap' forward after each shot. Double-hook triggers and properly machined disconnectors solve this problem. The conversion is fairly easy to perform, and the parts are cheap. Here's a good resource: http://www.gunsnet.net/Linx310/slapfix.htm

[Guest Voodoo_1]

That's a similar question as if one were to ask whether a $2000 AR is worth that much...

The answer is, it depends on what you are doing with it.

A $1000 AK from Vector or Arsenal has high quality imported parts mated carefully with American compliance parts, with superior fit and finish. Reliability will be better (though most AKs are very reliable, as it is), and more importantly, accuracy will be noticeably improved.

Also, the guns will be more durable... having milled receivers, or at least thick 1.6mm stamped units. They will also have tighter tolerances, resulting in less slop (hence the better accuracy and smoother actions).

If this is a gun which you will be using for a long time, don't want to need to upgrade it, and which will run 100% under any conditions with superb accuracy... spend the money.

Be prepared to wait for the arrival of a premium gun, regardless of type. They aren't necessarily 'scarce', by definition, but they aren't dime-a-dozen either.

Trigger-slap is a phenomenon relevant to Romanian/Century AK triggers with a single 'hook' acting inside the receiver which was not properly machined (poor design, not a mistake). Predominant in cheaper builds, this design allows the trigger to be jarred as it follows the the carrier returning to battery. You feel a bit of a jerk as the trigger tries to 'slap' forward after each shot. Double-hook triggers and properly machined disconnectors solve this problem. The conversion is fairly easy to perform, and the parts are cheap. Here's a good resource: http://www.gunsnet.net/Linx310/slapfix.htm

Excellent reply! That is a good link to solve the trigger slap problem without replacing it with the Tapco G2 fire control. I don't know much about the Red Star Arms fire control. Most of the guys I know replaced it with the Tapco and it completely solved the problem. The Red Star could be a good alternative.

[molonlabetn]

My sister just bought her future fiancé a Century/Romanian WASR-10 on impulse, and brought it to me to 'check-it-out' and clean it up...

My first ever opportunity to fully detail-strip a WASR has been eye-opening. it's got some of the roughest, dirtiest machine-work I've ever seen on an AK. The trigger-group is shoddy and looks thrown together, the gas-tube isn't symmetrical, nor does it fit well. The barrel looks like they were handling it with pliers instead of hands... The only part that looks to be in decent shape is the bolt-carrier, but even the bolt isn't in the best shape. There's dirt caked in the cosmoline deep in the receiver and gas-tube. The cleaning kit which came with it is rusted (can't even get it open).

I'll be busy getting this thing cleaned up.

Thankfully, the bore looks sharp... I'll suspend judgment until I get it cleaned and bore-snaked. The mag is new and the front sight isn't cocked, thank goodness.

I wouldn't buy a WASR at all, now.

I'll post some pics later...

[K191145]

I bought a MAK-90 in 94 for $450, fired several thousand rounds through it with no problems. I know it's a cheap Norinco but it's surprisingly accurate out to 100 yards. I don't know what todays prices for one is.

[molonlabetn]

Norinco builds some quality firearms... too bad they are no longer imported, especially their 1911 clones.

Hang on to that Mak. It will give you good service for a long time, based on their reputation.

[K191145]

Norinco builds some quality firearms... too bad they are no longer imported, especially their 1911 clones.

Hang on to that Mak. It will give you good service for a long time, based on their reputation.

I've gotten alot of enjoyment out of it.

Here's a question, not exactly about AKs but AK magizines. Is there any truth to what some say that if you leave magizines loaded for a long time it will weaken the springs? I keep them loaded for the next range session but I haven't shot it in over 4 months.

[molonlabetn]

I've gotten alot of enjoyment out of it.

Here's a question, not exactly about AKs but AK magizines. Is there any truth to what some say that if you leave magizines loaded for a long time it will weaken the springs? I keep them loaded for the next range session but I haven't shot it in over 4 months.

I have never heard of a problem like that in any quality magazine... Just static tension won't weaken a spring, it's when the spring is cycled that it begins to yield. Springs are cheap... Heck, for an AK, mags are cheap!

I always keep 1/2 of my magazines for nearly all of my guns loaded. Never had a problem.

[K191145]

I have never heard of a problem like that in any quality magazine... Just static tension won't weaken a spring, it's when the spring is cycled that it begins to yield. Springs are cheap... Heck, for an AK, mags are cheap!

I always keep 1/2 of my magazines for nearly all of my guns loaded. Never had a problem.

I have 6-30 round mags. I want to get a few more, maybe I'm paranoid but I have a feeling AK mags may be hard to find some day.

I was listening to Colonel Hackworth on FOX a while back before he died, he told a story while in Vietnam he and some men came across a dead Vietcong, he had been dead for many months or a year and he dug his AK out of the dirt. It had rusted and was caked with mud and dirt. He said he forced the bolt back a chambered a new round then emptied the mag of about 20 rounds on full auto just to show the men what the AK was famous for. I seriously you could do that with an AR.

[molonlabetn]

I have 6-30 round mags. I want to get a few more, maybe I'm paranoid but I have a feeling AK mags may be hard to find some day.

I was listening to Colonel Hackworth on FOX a while back before he died, he told a story while in Vietnam he and some men came across a dead Vietcong, he had been dead for many months or a year and he dug his AK out of the dirt. It had rusted and was caked with mud and dirt. He said he forced the bolt back a chambered a new round then emptied the mag of about 20 rounds on full auto just to show the men what the AK was famous for. I seriously you could do that with an AR.

Not much on an AR would rust... But yeah, the DI gas system makes the bolt & carrier a common single-point failure. Oh well, they are good at what they do though.

[Guest LabRat]

+1 on the Linx310 site. There's some good info there.

About WASRs and other Romanian AKs... I wouldn't dare order one sight unseen. Shop around and look at several and pick the best one.

I've dealt with four so far:

1. I ordered a SAR-1 back in '01. (September 10, to be exact) The finish on the metal looked terrible. Trigger would slap your finger numb. The handguards - no joke - looked like somebody had molded a handful of... uhh... FUDGE onto the barrel.

Cure: Changed out the furniture for the then-new (and still-cool) Bulgarian black plastic, refinished it with Soviet-style baked on enamel, a good shooter.

2. My friend Neal got one about the same time. His metal has a really good finish to it and he replaced the furniture (though I can't remember what his original looked like or if he modded the trigger group) An even better shooter

3. I just got a WASR underfolder. Finish is really good, had to clean tons of cosmoline out of it (although after emptying a 100rd drum last weekend, the cosmoline started boiling out. It was all manner of amusing). I refinished a set of Chinese wood for it and have a set of Bulgarian plastic coming for it.

4. Saw a WASR (fixed-stock) in a shop a while back... gas block was straight but the front sight was canted almost enough for the weapon to be fired gang-banger style. Metal was horrible and the wood worse.

Verdict: If you're wanting to get into the AK world on a budget, find a Romie that's put together straight. We can make 'em look sharp later.

Dave

[Guest mc30707]

Arsenal makes fine products

[strob2000]

I've had an Arsenal SLR-95 for 10 years now and it has been totally reliable. It's also much better looking than the cheaper asian imports.

[fury2neon]

I have a Chinese sporter model AK clone. It shoots nice and all but if you really want reliability and accuracy why not move up to the M1A or FAL?

[Guest Dustin@CIS]

I own and have owned several Romanian SAR rifles. I have owned one WASR and sold it as soon as I shot my first SAR-1. For the price and the reliability, I will grab my SAR-1 over my MAK-90 everyday.