What would you have done

[Ray Z]

My youngest son [35] just called me to thank me again for giving him a concealed carry class for his birthday.

 

He told me that he was driving through Gatlinburg when a guy in a motorized wheelchair came flying across the street, against the light, right in front of him. Greg was just able to stop with this guy inches away from his front bumper. With this the guy yells "You need to how to f&%" drive. Greg rolls the window down and told him "He needs to learn what color to use to cross the street". With this the guy reaches over his shoulder and grabs a ball bat out of his backpack and starts coming around Greg's  car to the drivers side while swinging the bat in the air. With this Greg yells " I am armed". With that the guy in the wheelchair went his way. 

 

I realize that if he had to have shot this guy he would have had "pardon the pun" one strike against him in court.

 

Even though this guy had a ball bat and Greg had a gun could Greg have repelled deadly force?

[RED333]

Even though this guy had a ball bat and Greg had a gun could Greg have repelled deadly force?

Not from the car as he could drive away.

 

Just glad things turned out OK for all involved.

[Grand Torino]

I would have left. It's just not worth screwing up your life over some dumb ass if you don't have to.

[Guest Wildogre]

Agree that the best course of action was to do nothing and leave. I do not see an imminent threat to life or serious bodily harm. in the situation that you describe.

[Ray Z]

Even though this guy had a ball bat and Greg had a gun could Greg have repelled deadly force?

Not from the car as he could drive away.

 

Just glad things turned out OK for all involved.

Greg is as peaceful a person as I am. He has seen pictures of bullet wounds and knows how disruptive a bullet can be. I am just just  curious or what would have been the repercussions if this had played out.  

[midtennchip]

Agreed with others. He had the vehicle as protection and, I am assuming, an aggressor who probably would have trouble standing up and fighting. Driving away (even as the aggressor is swinging) is the smart move. There undoubtedly would be people who would have a hard time believing that shooting was necessary.

[midtennchip]

Greg is as peaceful a person as I am. He has seen pictures of bullet wounds and knows how disruptive a bullet can be. I am just just curious or what would have been the repercussions if this had played out.

All depends on the prosecutor. But if an indictment came down (and my gut is that it would have), there would have been jurors who sympathized with the handicapped guy. Anything could happen (particularly if new facts came up that we don't know right now), but I think Greg was right not to engage. Edited July 15, 2014 by midtennchip

[RED333]

Man in a wheel chair, out side the car with a bat,

You inside the car, there was no threat. Now if you are outside the car, backed into a corner

and shoot a man in a wheel chair, well your life will be hard for a long time.

You have to look at everything as "How is this a threat?".

Man in a wheel chair, just move away from the man, hell run to fight another day.

[Hershmeister]

A guy in a rascal scooter totes a bat? Weird upon weird - further evidence as to why to avoid G-burg

[VERO1]

I would have just given him an Earnhart Sr. Love tap with the front bumper!

[chances R]

When armed, egos must be kept in check. Not even a verbal conflict is simple anymore if you tote a gun to it. Walk away, drive away, etc. Greg may
win the battle but will lose the war if he shot in this situation...IMO, not to mention the possible mental fall-out afterwards.

[Guest JeremyD901]

The law will look at any exits you have in the situation and if you didn't take the exit to avoid it then you're guilty of murder. Using your weapon has to be a last resort me or you situation. With the man being handicapped and your son in a car it would of been real bad situation.

[tnhawk]

The only reasonable choice was to drive away from the incident.  However I would have called the police after I was at a safe distance.

[glowdotGlock]

It would not have been justified. Glad it didn't escalate further.

[monkeylizard]

The law will look at any exits you have in the situation and if you didn't take the exit to avoid it then you're guilty of murder.

 

That's incorrect. There's no duty to retreat in TN as long as you have a legal right to be wherever you are. The smart person will retreat if it's reasonable to do so. Not because they have to, but because avoiding an SD shooting is a whole lot cheaper and less life altering than engaging in one.

 

In this case, I agree with the others that the threat wasn't imminent.

[JAB]

The law will look at any exits you have in the situation and if you didn't take the exit to avoid it then you're guilty of murder.

 

I wouldn't be too sure of that.  In this case the deceased wasn't armed with even a baseball bat (although one must assume he had golf clubs in his cart) and was on foot, standing beside the shooter's vehicle.  While the shooter was arrested and charged, he was found not guilty at trial.

 

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2010/apr/17/man-charged-with-murder-in-tellico-village/

 

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2012/sep/19/expert-close-range-shot-killed-tellico-village-man/

 

From the second article (Nichols was the defense attorney in the case):

 

"There is a presumption if someone attacks you in your car or house, you are in fear for your life," he said.

 

Nichols said state law dictates that evidence is produced of self-defense, the burden is on the state to prove beyond a reasonable doubt Norman Whitton did not act in self-defense.

 

That said, I agree that if you can get away then you should.  However, thinking of how the often bumper to bumper traffic in Gatlinburg may mean a driver can't go anywhere or can only move at a snail's pace, I can see where fleeing would not be possible.

 

One good thing to keep in mind when driving in Gatlinburg, however, is that pedestrians very much have the 'right of way'.  When at a light, they should cross with the light but they don't always do so.  When using one of the numerous cross walks that are not at a light, pedestrians cross whenever they want and drivers have to look out for them.  I am not sure exactly what the local laws are on that but I know that it is true in practice.  I actually kind of like going to Gatlinburg a couple of times a year but try to go during the off seasons.  I also try to park near whatever end of town I come in on and go on foot from there because driving through town can be a hassle, especially considering that some pedestrians take the right of way to extreme levels and will step off the curb right in front of you without even so much as glancing to see if a car might be too close to stop (just like many people do in Walmart parking lots.)

Edited July 15, 2014 by JAB

[chances R]

That said, I agree that if you can get away then you should.  However, thinking of how the often bumper to bumper traffic in Gatlinburg may mean a driver can't go anywhere or can only move at a snail's pace, I can see where fleeing would not be possible....
[/quote]

Yeah, can really really be tough to outrun those wheelchairs .) Edited July 15, 2014 by chances R

[TrickyNicky]

Personally I would have smiled and waived when the guy in the chair started hollering. Never try to beat a dumbass at their own games.

[tnguy]

Man in a wheel chair, out side the car with a bat,

You inside the car, there was no threat. Now if you are outside the car, backed into a corner

and shoot a man in a wheel chair, well your life will be hard for a long time.

You have to look at everything as "How is this a threat?".

Man in a wheel chair, just move away from the man, hell run to fight another day.

 

Just shoot the tires out :D

[peejman]

Personally I would have smiled and waived when the guy in the chair started hollering. Never try to beat a dumbass at their own games.

 

Yep.  They'll win because they've got more experience. 

[Clod Stomper]

I would have called the cops, but I wouldn't have shot the guy.

Would be nice to see some tourons spend the night in jail for their dumbarsery.

I've witnessed a group drag their KIDS across 441 in Pigeon Forge causing traffic in every lane to slam on their brakes. No, not at a light or even a crosswalk. I regret not stopping in the median and calling the PD for putting their children in danger.

I hate that place and I despise tourons.

[Hershmeister]

[quote name="Clod Stomper" post="1168827" timestamp="1405457264"]I would have called the cops, but I wouldn't have shot the guy. Would be nice to see some tourons spend the night in jail for their dumbarsery. I've witnessed a group drag their KIDS across 441 in Pigeon Forge causing traffic in every lane to slam on their brakes. No, not at a light or even a crosswalk. I regret not stopping in the median and calling the PD for putting their children in danger. I hate that place and I despise tourons.[/quote] The draw of fudge, t shirts and pancakes Is irresistable

[teecro]

Personally I would have smiled and waived when the guy in the chair started hollering. Never try to beat a dumbass at their own games.

 

B I N G O ! ! !

 

I try my best to not let a dumbass bring me down to their level except when dealing with my wife.... I much rather to not allow someone else's shitty outlook on life ruin my day... Smile and just nod...

[JAB]

Yeah, can really really be tough to outrun those wheelchairs .)

 

Hey, if you are sitting in bumper to bumper traffic that isn't moving then you ain't outrunning anything.

 

Personally I would have smiled and waived when the guy in the chair started hollering.

 

If traffic were such that you couldn't simply drive away, how long would you continue smiling and waving after he started smashing your car windows with that baseball bat?

 

What I am saying is that, in certain circumstances, just because someone is in a wheelchair doesn't mean that person couldn't possibly pose a threat.  A ball bat to the cranium is a ball bat to the cranium.  Also, I wouldn't assume that just because someone is in a power chair that they can't stand, at all.  Some folks use those because they can't walk a whole lot, not because they are confined to them just to get around.

 

I am not saying that the first response should be to shoot.  Driving away, if possible, is certainly the better approach.  Still, treating someone with a baseball bat as if they could not, possibly pose a threat - power chair or not - is a mistake, IMO.

 

All that said, on a somewhat lighter note, something about the whole thing did make me think of this scene from Seinfeld:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csuZHyW-iGI

Edited July 16, 2014 by JAB

[glowdotGlock]

In this situation with him in a wheelchair it wouldn't warrant a bullet. If he does start beating the car just start walking around it. What is he gonna do? Chase you? If so just stand on the roof of the car or something. If he had a firearm then different story. Ball bat, no.