define Middle Class

[atlas3025]

The funny part is that what they call rich is very low. When Kerry ran in 04 he called a couple making $200k a year rich! I couldn't figure out how my wife and I were simultaneously nearly poor, yet nearly rich!

No wonder the middle class is shrinking!

[Mike A]

Maybe there was some legitimacy to the term in the past but I think anymore "middle class" is just a political talking point.  If you make enough money to "afford" (and that's another discussion in itself) this arbitrary list of goods and services you are "middle class."  I am for the "middle class" and if you vote for me I will protect you from those who have less and / or more than you do.  Another way of classifying people and convincing them that they are fundamentally different from those who have more or less than they do and need protection from "those people."   

[up2snuff]

I heard a good definition of middle class the other day. "Having everything you need and some of the stuff you want". Thought it fit pretty good, but it still doesn't keep me from wanting more. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hershmeister]

[quote name="JPR1959" post="1167098" timestamp="1404952076"]The bottom line for me is pretty simple. I feel I will have to work until the day that I die regardless of what someone else thinks. My house is not worth what I paid for it 9 years ago, my 401K has survived 3 recessions in 7 years, I make less than I did 10 years ago, and my current pay raises don't keep up with my increase in medical insurance much less the cost of living. I'm screwed, but so are a lot of other people.[/quote] QFT!!

[Dolomite_supafly]

If you make enough to pay for everything WITHOUT receiving government assistance then I think you are middle class. As soon as you start getting benefits then I think you are poor and the government wants everyone to be poor yet pay taxes. Funny how that works, the government gives you money then takes it back. I guess so they can change were the money is and how they can use it.

 

Talking of taxes they have tried several times to pass a law that would equate the money saved as income if you owned something. How it works is if you own your home, or anything else of value like cars, the government assesses it to determine how much it would rent for then they add that amount to your taxable annual income. It would apply to cars and almost anything you own that has rental value. Think of it as property tax for anything that sits on your property. There are dozens of countries that do it in Europe and have done so for a very long time. Anyone who has been to Germany has seen the streets filled with useable furniture and other items thrown away, that is so they are not taxed on those items. BTW, they also tax church goers.

[peejman]

The bottom line for me is pretty simple.  I feel I will have to work until the day that I die regardless of what someone else thinks.  My house is not worth what I paid for it 9 years ago, my 401K has survived 3 recessions in 7 years, I make less than I did 10 years ago, and my current pay raises don't keep up with my increase in medical insurance much less the cost of living.  I'm screwed, but so are a lot of other people.

 

I'm right there with you.  I still have a glimmer of hope that I might get to quit working at some point, but true retirement ain't gonna happen. 

 

 

 

And I thought about this thread a bit and it began to make me mad.  I spent nearly 7 years in college and have worked hard for another 15 to achieve this level of mediocrity.  If that ain't even middle class....   that kinda pisses me off. 

[Ugly]

As Americans, we shouldn't be labeled or placed in classes. It is a political division by the so called "elites", pathetic.

 

Me and the ol lady look at where we are, and are happy with what we have and with our life. That's all that matters, we're not loaded, but we are content. 

Of course the socialists are hell bent on ruining that for ALL of us.

[TMF]

I think the terminology is very subjective, and depends on where you live and the culture of your community. I remember dating a girl in high school who considered my family rich because we had a new house built. Not a big house, mind you. Just a house. This was a step up from the double wide we lived in. My parents saved for 15 years to get that property and house. But we were considered well off because we didn't live in the trailer park anymore. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[daddyo]

I've never given much thought to which "class" I fit into. Alls I know is that I have everything that I need, and many things that I have been fortunate enough to be able to afford, with enough to be able to donate to charity from time to time. I am not rich by any means, but because I have lived within my means and saved some money, I am comfortable. I have a family I love and they love me back. I have some good friends who I could call if I ever needed them.

All in all, I am a blessed man and I would wish the same for anyone else.

[R_Bert]

I have so much to say, but won't.

 

Just so grateful for family, friends, God, and really solid planning.

[quietmike]

Pay isn't the issue, instead it's our devalued money.

In the early 60's minimum wage was $1.75/hour, but that money was based on gold and silver. Today those five silver quarters are worth ~$20.

 

If the current minimum wage was paid in silver quarters, you'd have ~$116 in buying power.

 

So we have about 700% inflation between the sixties and now.

[tnguy]

A little bit different in England

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2k1iRD2f-c&feature=kp

[tnguy]

Pay isn't the issue, instead it's our devalued money.

In the early 60's minimum wage was $1.75/hour, but that money was based on gold and silver. Today those five silver quarters are worth ~$20.

 

If the current minimum wage was paid in silver quarters, you'd have ~$116 in buying power.

 

So we have about 700% inflation between the sixties and now.

 

Absolutely. Everyone should be familiar with this page and a couple of graphs I don't have time to link right now.

 

http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts

[jtmaze]

Poor is a state of mind. I work and pay my bills. I am broke 2 weeks a month know I am going to have to be careful those 2weeks if I have any unexpected expenditures during that time. I may be broke but I will never be poor. JTM We the People of the United States, in order to form a more Perfect Union......

[atlas3025]

If you make enough to pay for everything WITHOUT receiving government assistance then I think you are middle class. As soon as you start getting benefits then I think you are poor and the government wants everyone to be poor yet pay taxes. Funny how that works, the government gives you money then takes it back. I guess so they can change were the money is and how they can use it.

 

Talking of taxes they have tried several times to pass a law that would equate the money saved as income if you owned something. How it works is if you own your home, or anything else of value like cars, the government assesses it to determine how much it would rent for then they add that amount to your taxable annual income. It would apply to cars and almost anything you own that has rental value. Think of it as property tax for anything that sits on your property. There are dozens of countries that do it in Europe and have done so for a very long time. Anyone who has been to Germany has seen the streets filled with useable furniture and other items thrown away, that is so they are not taxed on those items. BTW, they also tax church goers.

 

Hillary gave the home ownership bit a go when she was President before.  

[gregintenn]

I think that placing people into classes is a divide and conquer government tactic. Income classes, races, gender, sexual orientation, gun owner v/s gun banners, etc.

 

I don't care what class I'm in. Some people I associate with consider me wealthy, while others would deem me dirt poor. It's all perspective.

[RED333]

If you make enough to pay for everything WITHOUT receiving government assistance then I think you are middle class. As soon as you start getting benefits then I think you are poor and the government wants everyone to be poor yet pay taxes. Funny how that works, the government gives you money then takes it back. I guess so they can change were the money is and how they can use it.

 

Talking of taxes they have tried several times to pass a law that would equate the money saved as income if you owned something. How it works is if you own your home, or anything else of value like cars, the government assesses it to determine how much it would rent for then they add that amount to your taxable annual income. It would apply to cars and almost anything you own that has rental value. Think of it as property tax for anything that sits on your property. There are dozens of countries that do it in Europe and have done so for a very long time. Anyone who has been to Germany has seen the streets filled with useable furniture and other items thrown away, that is so they are not taxed on those items. BTW, they also tax church goers.

KY does this to vehicles ever year, the state access what it is worth and taxes you on it when you get your registration.

[quietmike]

Understanding the Cloward-Piven strategy make all the government foolishness of the past few decades become crystal clear.

Basically the strategy is to overload the economic sytem with debt and people living on the dole. The economic crisis will result in a political crisis and certain groups will say the only way out is a full-on socialist system.

If you watch, you will see some politicians jumping the gun over relatively minor issues, so the agenda is in place.

 

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2010/03/24-4

[Murgatroy]

I like to think I am middle class.

 

I could be wrong, but it wouldn't be the first time.

 

I own nice things, pay all my bills and don't recieve any government assistance.

 

I work for what I have. I have worked hard to get what I have.

 

Here in Kentucky as mentioned, we are taxed on our property. I had to pay sales tax on my car when I bought it fifteen years ago. For fifteen years I paid my insurance, registration and upkeep and went on my way. Starting three years ago, I started to have to pay taxes on something I had owned for twelve years with never a question. $3.57 plus $30 for the registration is a rather far cry from the $98 I paid in Tennessee for the registration and wheel tax, but it is the point of having to pay taxes. My Mustang on the other hand it taxed at $250. That adds a fair bit to the price of the car over the next fifteen years.

 

We are currently going through the whole 'minimum wage' thing up here. They are looking to raise it to $10 or a hair above. Because that proverbial single mother who has zero marketable skills and can't get my order right at the drive through can't support her children at $16000 a year. With the equivalent of $8000 in living assistance in her project home, and her $1200 a year in SNAP benefits, or god forbid the (at my company rate for a family of 3) $6000 a year in Obamacare, lest we forget the $2500 she will get back from EIC when she files her taxes which she will of course be found to have overpaid and be recieving a refund, she makes the same as someone based at a $34000 a year job. What I then ask is: is everyone else going to be required to recieve a $5700 pay increase from their company to match this? Because otherwise, I am taking a $5700 pay cut. But that logic doesn't work for wealthy liberals driving their fancy cars.

 

No obviously, I fudged those numbers a minor bit to round them out.

 

But based on that number, anyone making above $34000 a year could be considered middle class.

 

I know that after $55k you are no longer eligible for EIC or eFiling, we found that out a handful of years ago and I haven't seen a refund in even longer. Yet it never ceases to amaze me, the more and more I make in life, the less it seems to go.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Murgatroy

[Mike.357]

I like to think I am middle class.

 

I could be wrong, but it wouldn't be the first time.

 

I own nice things, pay all my bills and don't recieve any government assistance.

 

I work for what I have. I have worked hard to get what I have.

 

 

Me and you buddy

[btq96r]

As others have stated, you can't define middle class nationally.  In some places, you can't even define it by state.  The underlying factors that determine poor, middle class and rich are highly speculative and I'm sure not everybody will agree with them.  I really think there could be more levels to determine things, but this is America, and more than three choices on a sliding scale is pushing our attention span.  It also helps the politicians from all parties say they want to protect the middle class and help those who are poor reach the middle class.

 

Tennessee is a good place as any to make what's left in the value of your dollar go as far as it can without being in a place that is depressing to live in.  I chose to settle here while I go to school (on the GI Bill, so I guess I'm one the 47% leaches living from Uncle Sugar :rolleyes: ) and I chose Tennessee to keep my out of pocket costs as reasonable as can be while I work on earning a degree.

 

 

I'm a 2%'r.   98% of my wages go to taxes.  

 

Are you saying that out of ever $100 you get you only are keeping $2? 

[Smith]

Middle class can not be defined because middle class is not a stagnate destination. The middle class is where people are in flux as they move between the bottom and top of the economic fields. You are in the middle class if you are working to move from a lower economic level to a higher level.

[Lowpower]

As others have stated, you can't define middle class nationally.  In some places, you can't even define it by state.  The underlying factors that determine poor, middle class and rich are highly speculative and I'm sure not everybody will agree with them.  I really think there could be more levels to determine things, but this is America, and more than three choices on a sliding scale is pushing our attention span.  It also helps the politicians from all parties say they want to protect the middle class and help those who are poor reach the middle class.

 

Tennessee is a good place as any to make what's left in the value of your dollar go as far as it can without being in a place that is depressing to live in.  I chose to settle here while I go to school (on the GI Bill, so I guess I'm one the 47% leaches living from Uncle Sugar :rolleyes: ) and I chose Tennessee to keep my out of pocket costs as reasonable as can be while I work on earning a degree.

 

 

 

Are you saying that out of ever $100 you get you only are keeping $2? 

Why yes and if you want I the have some future beach front property for sale in Salameh, AZ, please let me know. I still have an acre or two left. 

 

As far as using the GI Bill for education I think you should. We all did.  Pity when you get done you'll be qualified for a management job at McDonald's. 

 

No, wait a minute.....

 

Lessee, pharmacists start at $120K/year right now. Airline pilots will be high demand in about 3 years or so. Middle TN has a good Flight Program. They make around $50k the 1st then go up dramatically but the cost to join is an ATP and 1500 hours PIC time. Stay with the majors because the weed eaters probably average $12-20k/year which is below the poverty level. Flight Dispatchers make on average $110/year with the majors but also start on the low side. Probably $45k per year.  Wait! Move to CA. Stay unemployed, get on the housing assistance program, sign up for food stamps and gas coupon assistance and you'll be making the equivalent of $50K/year and you can stay home and ride that old couch!

 

Or, you can work really, really hard and let all those other people sit on their couches collecting govt teat while you pay 98% of other peoples taxes.

 

Please let me know about the AZ property. It has sewer and water and a real road going by it. WoooHoooo!

I'm itching to unload before my property taxes go up. 

 

:D

 

Almost forgot to add the politicians are the ones that cause this. They are not your friends. They are not here to help you. They want power.  The will use any means at their disposal to get it.  They will do it at your expense. If you think otherwise then you become part of the problem and not the solution. 

Edited July 13, 2014 by Lowpower

[gregintenn]

If you're easily offended, DO NOT READ ANY FURTHER!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

O.k., you were warned.....

 

 

Instead of whining about the government, and blaming everyone else because you don't have everything you desire, why not form a plan and do something about it?

 

While the economy isn't the greatest right now, and our government leaders suck, many of us are still thriving and climbing the economic ladder. You can join us, or keep blaming someone else for your shortcomings.

 

If this makes you angry, good. Perhaps it's the kickstart you need to figure out how to produce a product or service other people desire, and you have a genuine interest in.

 

To be more successful than the next guy, you have to either be willing to do things most will not, or you'll need to know things others don't.

 

Your employer nor the government is holding you back. IT'S YOU!!!!

[oldmustangjunkie]

[quote name="gregintenn" post="1168155" timestamp="1405277151"]If you're easily offended, DO NOT READ ANY FURTHER!!!!!!! O.k., you were warned..... Instead of whining about the government, and blaming everyone else because you don't have everything you desire, why not form a plan and do something about it? While the economy isn't the greatest right now, and our government leaders suck, many of us are still thriving and climbing the economic ladder. You can join us, or keep blaming someone else for your shortcomings. If this makes you angry, good. Perhaps it's the kickstart you need to figure out how to produce a product or service other people desire, and you have a genuine interest in. To be more successful than the next guy, you have to either be willing to do things most will not, or you'll need to know things others don't. Your employer nor the government is holding you back. IT'S YOU!!!![/quote] AMEN! The only thing that stands between you and your dreams is YOU. I've made more money during this recession than the 6 years before it. Recognize trends and act on them. Change careers or increase your education level to climb the ladder. Borrow money at low interest rates and open a business. You can make money or you can make excuses.